The Lucky Titan

How To Make A Sales Video "Go Viral" With Joseph Wilkins

June 23, 2022 Josh Tapp
The Lucky Titan
How To Make A Sales Video "Go Viral" With Joseph Wilkins
Show Notes Transcript

Joseph Wilkins founded ProCreative almost 20 years ago, a marketing agency focused on infomercials, TV commercials and online video. Joseph has directed thousands of ad campaigns for clients including Google, Linkedin, McDonald's, Goldman Sachs, Chevrolet, Home Depot, and other mega brands. As habits shifted from broadcast to online, Joseph launched where his team now creates attention-grabbing viral style sales videos that entertain viewers into buying. With two decades of experience, hundreds of millions of broadcast and online views, and over $50 MILLION in tracked sales, Joseph enjoys sharing his simple 8 step process any business can copy to drive immediate online sales. Linkedin: Speaking bio:

Intro: Welcome to the Lucky Titan podcast where you will learn how to fill your favorite platform with tons of your dream customers from some of the world's top entrepreneurs. I'm your host, Josh Tapp now let's get started. 

Josh: What is up everybody, Josh Tapp here again and welcome back to the lucky Titan, today, we're here with Joseph Wilkins and this is a conversation I've been really excited to have, because Joseph is here to really talk to us about video that converts. I mean, he's had 15 years of testing videos, he's done everything under the sun and he's going to share with us today his eight step method for actually making sales videos that convert into sales, which truth be told, everybody is going to be throwing at you, Oh, you do live, you need to do all these different things so that you can make sales but the truth is, most of them don't work unless your approach so I want to see what Joseph's methodology is so Joseph, say what's up and let's hop in.

Joseph: Okay, so what I really want to share before we get into the eight steps that I take through every single one of my clients, is why we do what we do now so just real quick, background,20 years ago, I started a video production agency that was pretty solely focused on infomercials so television, 30 minute long shows, these were huge productions but our very first production did over $200 million in sales, that was the Little Giant Ladder infomercial, we were one of three companies that produce that, but it just blew my mind the power of a really good video in front of a really big audience but I don't know about you, Josh but I certainly don't watch television, if at all the same way I did 20 years ago and so you know, over the next 15 years, we started to see a decline in the results that we were getting from television and we knew that we needed to go online, but you can't just take the same commercials, you ran on TV, put them online and expect the same results and so it wasn't until about five years ago that our clients really started to ask us, you know, we've seen these really funny viral videos, right, everyone wants a viral video and up until five years ago, our response was always the same, we would always say, sorry, we don't do funny, because the worst thing that you can do is try to be funny when you're not, because you'll end up looking silly and so we really had to, you know, turn down those jobs because I wasn't prepared to do something that, you know, wasn't 100% then, after so many clients asking and asking and asking about five years ago, I spent months and months finding the right team members to get on the bus and I'll talk about how you guys listening can do this on the cheap but I found the right team members to help me so that I could finally say with confidence to my clients. Yes, we do funny and actually, yes, we can convert funny into sales and just to give you a quick comparison, and then we can dive into the steps before we launched the biggest video that we'd ever got online, had 100,000 views, which we thought at the time was pretty good, the very first campaign after I got the right team members to help me write and produce these funny videos, the very first campaign that we did was for a super niche audience, very small company. So if there's anyone listening that thinks, Well, I'm too small for this, you're wrong. Our very first campaign, we did three videos for them, we got 7 million views, it was a SaaS company with a very unique product and we got $500,000 in subscriptions.

Josh: So that's awesome. That was my mind. 

Joseph: That immediately told me okay, this is something that you can do and that you can, you know, deliver benefits to your customers. Fast forward to today, we have a campaign between multiple videos for one client with the same character in all of these videos, that has over 100 million views and more importantly, millions and millions of millions of dollars in sales so this is the difference between you know, making videos that make you feel good and make videos that literally transform your sales funnel and pipeline.

Josh: Yeah, well so I do want to ask two quick things here and because there are two big caveats I found to social content converting anyways is if you have a How are you putting it out there to the world you know, getting those first initial views and everything and then secondly is is your sales funnel even converting right are those qualifying factors for a funny video to actually convert into sales or? 

Joseph: yeah. And that's a great point and I always like to clarify when a client comes to me and says, can we do 10 million in sales next year, I don't have the data to answer your question, because I only produce half of the success for that right so creating the video, that's only half of the work, the other half of the work is, how optimize is your sales funnel? How well are you converting whatever the offer is into a more profitable offer, on the back end, do you have a really good strategy for pushing that video out, and this may be the time to break a few hearts and deliver the bad news, the good news is, you know, these videos are tremendously profitable. The bad news is it's not just about making a video, quote, unquote, go viral, it's about a digital marketing strategy of paid ads, okay, so it's not just making an ad, put it on YouTube, and hope it goes to the millions, no, it's like, if I say to you, I'm going to build you a vending machine, it's a full of $100 bills, but you've got to bring $20 Every time you use that machine, big ad dollars profit every time how many times you're gonna want to use that machine, that's what this is about, it's predictable, it's repeatable, it's not guesswork, it's not lightning in a bottle but yes, you have to have a well optimized sales funnel and you have to have a paid strategy for which platform, this is going to be run on as a paid ad, not just a viral post.

Josh: Yeah, I love that. What so let's dive into the eight steps, then because I'm curious, you know, knowing that you need to have a good system already in place so you said, but truth be told, most of the people who listen to this show, they've already got a pretty decent sales process in place, right so knowing that you've got a good funnel in place, how do you leverage a sales video to actually generate revenue?

Joseph: Okay, so everything I'm about to run through, I'm gonna do super quick and very, you know, very brief and all of the notes for this is in a free ebook that you can download on our website, it's called How to make a funny sales video without hiring us eight steps that anyone can follow but before we get to the first one, I want to just set the stage. Think about your customer now, I don't care if it's a b2b, b2c, do an immediate purchase on an E commerce platform or generating a sales lead for a follow up meeting, you've got to think about that person is on social media for the most part, you know, we're on Facebook, we're on YouTube, we're on LinkedIn, we're on Snapchat, we're on Instagram. Why are we there in the first place, for the majority of your customers, they're coming to these platforms to be entertained, they're coming to waste some time, they're coming for a break from the monotony of their day so the closer that your content can imitate the reason why they've come in the first place, it stands to reason that you're going to connect with them on a whole new level now, if you bombard them with a sales pitch right out of the gate, they're immediately going to shut off or worse yet, they're going to click that skip button on YouTube, or they're going to scroll down on Facebook, our ads perform so well, because we trick people into thinking that they're watching a piece of sketch comedy. It's not until maybe 30 seconds into the video that they realize this is an ad so that's the whole strategy that this is built on, is that we're creating entertainment, that then educates that then sales so step one of our eight step process is marketing fundamentals 101, it's the most boring part of the eight steps, but you've got to do it, nobody would ever walk to a mailbox, and get ready to mail a long letter that you've just written but before you mail it, you decide who to address it to and yet, that's what we do with a lot of our marketing is we write it with no particular person in mind, the more detailed you can be in all of your marketing efforts but specifically, when creating a script for your funny viral sales sales video, the more detailed you can be in writing to a customer avatar, and I'm not talking female 25 to 35 with an income of X, I'm talking Brenda, who lives in this house with this car who likes this drink at Starbucks and these radio state I mean, the more you can get under the skin of your customer demographic and psychographic and avatars that are really, really specific, it only stands to reason that that letter is going to be much more personal, feel more personal, and, and that's our foundation. So here's a hack for how if I don't already have my customer demographic and psychographic nailed, one exercise that we demand before we take on any clients is I want to have my assistant, read through at least 100 customer reviews, your customer reviews, now, if you don't have a husband 100 customer reviews, look at your closest competitor’s reviews and what you're looking for are messages, constant themes throughout these reviews that will tell you certain things that these people like about your product or service and you are literally looking to create a list of the top prioritized selling points and also just the language that people are using, you don't want to speak to people in a formal language, you want to use their vernacular and their terminology and so the more you can create this customer avatar, the more you can build customer messaging, that sounds like the customer that you can then literally put into the mouth of the actor that's going to portray your customer, the more it's going to connect the number one comment that we get on our videos is I just kept watching that video because it felt like me in the video, or it felt like a friend of mine, or I just I could connect with that person and that's because we've stolen your words and put them into our actors so a lot more in the book but step number one, define, do your homework, do your research before you start to write?

Josh: Yeah, I love it. So what's the next step? Let's go.

Joseph: Okay, step two is brainstorming. So this is where most people get the deer in the headlights, I have no idea what my funny video should be about. So this is where we say, take out a white piece of paper or a whiteboard and don't set the goal of coming up with good ideas, because that will intimidate you set the goal of coming up with bad ideas and when I say ideas, I'm looking for two things. Number one, who is the hero of this video so what's the character? Number two, what's the big problem, that's exaggerated and entertaining, but that ultimately your product serves so it could be, you know, completely outlandish, and, you know, fantasy, or it could be much more rooted in reality but literally what we do is we set a goal to throw out 55, zero, bad ideas and again, just who's my character, what's their big entertaining, but still real problem that my product solves, once you throw out 50 bad ideas and this should be in a team collaborative meeting, if possible, give everyone give five people the goal of 10 ideas each, once you've got that on the whiteboard, I promise you, you'll find 2 3 4 really good ideas, or it'll spin off into a good idea but brainstorming is step two quantity before quality but quality will come if you do that one simple exercise.

Josh: So yeah, and I love the team collaboration side of that, because we've watched this over and over again, we do the same thing with our all of our marketing efforts is you don't want to just be like, okay, the CMO or whoever's in charge of the marketing just makes the decision because 

Joseph: Yep. 

Josh: most of the time they're wrong and marketing related that you've got to have all the brainpower of everybody and at some point, something just clicks and right, that's it, that's the one, right?

Joseph: Yeah, we've all watched Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, the best of the three lifelines is always ask the audience, the wisdom of the crowd will always win so you're ready to go to step number three? 

Josh: let's do it, let's hop in. 

Joseph: Okay, step three is scripting so this is where the rubber meets the road, you're going to actually start writing your script. Now, most people are pretty surprised when I tell them, all of the videos that we've produced, none of them have been scripted by one person, we always have at least seven or eight writers on each video that we produce and I'll step you through how we do that so our right to number one is simply a marketing a marketer who can write the copy points that we've identified and we found those in step one, when we did our research to find what are the common themes that our customers are saying they like about our product or service so we're creating about five selling points, and then maybe one or two objections that we need to overcome so this is the marketing framework of your video and the story should go, we meet your character who has a big problem, who meets a guide who gives them your solution, and then we show how their life is transformed because of it, those three simple elements, that's from Donald Miller story, brand, structure, or pretty much every Hollywood movie you've ever seen follows that guide, Problem Solution transformation so with those copy points, we're going to weave a story that shows how that problem is solved by the benefits that you serve and then the transformation. If you have big objections that people have to your product or service, and they're not going to be changed, you have to address them so if it's too expensive, you have to say why and the fact that you're more, you know, better quality so you buy one of yours as opposed to three of your competitors, or whatever it is but this is where you write your marketing framework, then you bring in a second writer, and anyone can find good writers online these days so Fiverr is a great site, I always recommend or Upwork, or, you know, find local freelance writers if you don't have these people, as employees, but then bring in a storytelling, creative writer to then take those marketing copy points and tell that story and most of these videos are about three minutes and people say, Well, that's pretty long for these days. Now, it's not, Netflix is still around pumping out two hour long videos, and people are still watching them, people don't start watching, because it's too long to start watching because they get bored, they start watching because it's irrelevant, it's not watching because it doesn't give you value so if you keep to these principles, that's how we've found our longer videos actually outperform or shorter versions of the same videos so that's step three is do is creating the script, now, you're probably thinking, well, that's only two writers, where are the seven coming from, that step four, is once we have a script, it's not funny yet, it is compelling, because it's got those marketing copy points in it and it's interesting, because it's got that story art, but it's not funnier so what we do in step four is I bring in at least five sometimes six professional here, me professional, comedy writers, now, these aren't, you know, storytellers and these aren't marketers, these are just people who do comedy for a living so some of them are stand-up comics that do gigs at night and work for me as a freelancer during the day, I have people that work for me that are on cruise ships for their, for their career, entertaining at night, and during the day, they have downtime, so they write for me again, you can find these people by doing searches, go to Fiverr, go to Upwork, they're fairly inexpensive, you'd be surprised at how good you can find quality comedy writers that are willing to work for, you know, an hour or two to punch up a script but what we do is we take our script, and we send it out to five or six different comedy writers, we don't show them each their notes and we have each of them, we say I want you know, 10 to 20 Jokes on this script, they're not rewriting the script, they're just adding in lines here or adding in jokes there and when you get that from that volume of five or six different people, you got all of this information that you as the project lead, or whoever you assign, to be the Creative Director for the video has the hard part of deciding, okay, which jokes make the cut, and your jokes have to be relevant, they shouldn't be distracting, they shouldn't be offensive, they shouldn't get you flagged on Facebook. I think that clever humor is harder to do but it is the best way to get really good content, that's not offensive, but there will still further the sales so you know, I could talk forever about the kind of comedy that works best, but you want to be we'll talk about this in a minute but you want to be constantly testing these jokes, not on yourself. Unless you're the customer avatar, you want to be testing on your customer avatar to make sure because the jokes only funny if somebody laughs at it, or at least smile so you want to be testing things so that's step four, going through the comedy phase, punching it out, make sure every joke is either keeping someone's attention, or furthering the sale, if it's distracting, it has to go.

Josh: You mentioned that though? Just sorry. interrupt you here, Joseph but I'm curious with the testing of the jokes, how are you doing that? I mean, is it you just slipping them into your emails? Are you you know, posting them on social media? How are you gaining that?

Joseph: That's a great question and the answer is it depends on the budget. Like literally, I've had clients that have paid $20,000 to fill a room in a focus group company with a one-way mirror, and we're looking at their responses. Now, that's only actually happened once my entire career. Most of the time, it's sending out a survey monkey to the clients, top customers, or it's, you know, pick your 10 most, you know, rabid fans that love your product and don't mind me, you know, sending them emails every now and then or it's literally, you know, I've sent my system down to the street corner to stop people and say, Can I tell you a joke? I mean, get creative and think about how can you test this on as many people plus possible so yes you've got is something that you want to use, but you don't want to rely on it solely you want to be testing this on people as much as possible in whatever way you can.

Josh: Yeah, I love that. Well, so let's move on to Step 5am. I doing good on time?

Joseph: Okay, good. So I've done a terrible job, this goes into way more detail in the free download so step five is the production, this is where we have a script that is final, it's ready to produce, we've gone through multiple rounds of each of the previous versions we've tested, we know right, now we've got a script that's worth spending some money to produce, now, you would think as somebody who has spent 20 years, building out multiple video production studios and crews and spending literally millions of dollars on the best equipment, you think I'd say the most important part production is to hire a really expensive video production company. It's not, especially for this kind of video where we're dealing in comedy, the most important part of production is casting, casting the right actor, most of our videos are anchored by one person and maybe there's some supporting characters, but there's one main character that's carrying this video and we will typically look at 100 actors for every one that we pick, now, let me explain how we do that because it's actually a power tip that everyone can do for free doesn't cost a penny. It only costs when you hire somebody doesn't cost when you audition somebody. So why wouldn't you take your script and use the auditioning process to make sure that script is working so here's what we do, we will look at the script and say, okay, so our character is a soccer mom. So clearly, she has to be female but I'm not going to put her in a bit in a box and say, she's got red hair, and she's exactly this age, and she has this weight, and she has this look, because then I just miss out on all kinds of other opportunities that may have been so much better so what I'll do is I'll say okay, so she has to be a soccer mom so that's about the biggest bucks that we're going to put her in so I'll look at the local acting agencies websites, and I'll pick out a look through at least 100 different people that I think could fit that role, I'll narrow it down to my top 20-ish and I'll email the audition or the acting agencies and I'll say, here's a part of the script, you don't want to give them the whole strip, maybe give them two or three paragraphs, I want video auditions emailed to me, by this date, give them about a week, a week later, I'd get 20 Auditions from the best people that I've seen online and I watched through them and you'd be amazed at the ideas that I get where I see, this line isn't quite working the way I thought, Oh, this line, they actually ad lib something, they put something in here, these actors, if you pick the right ones with comedy experience, they'll actually improve your script as they're going because they want the job so once I've watched my top 20, I distill it down typically to my top five and I will now bring them into our studio here just through the other room over that because you don't want to just rely on a self-taped audition that's been sent in where they've done it 20 times and pick the best one and you know, they're in the comfort of their living room, no pressure on them, you want to see can they perform under the pressure, but you're also looking at can they be coached, can they can they be directed because you know, the difference between saying this line fast or slow could be the difference between it being funny or not, you want to make sure can you put the emphasis on the company name a little bit more or can you, you know, drop your voice here and pick it up here as a director, you're really pulling the best parts out of an actor and you need to make sure that you can coach them on the day of the shoot so that you get better than what was in the audition so typically, I'll bring in the client and we'll both do that together or had them on Zoom but ultimately after that process of bringing each one into the studio for 15 minutes each also you'll know which one is the one that you need to cast and that is the most important part of production, now some people will say well I have a friend that acts let's just hire him or her, this isn't that kind of video, Marketing is like a salad. Yes, you should have all kinds of videos bad and good, literally user generated content, fantastic, CEO message fantastic, those are different kinds of video for lower in the funnel, this is a first impression, top of funnel video that if done right will be your biggest source of collecting leads, collecting sales, spend a little bit of extra money for the actor, if you don't have any other budget, that's where you should put it. Well, sorry, first you got to put it on the writers, it's not a ton of money we're talking about, you can find good writers that will write for 100 bucks an hour, and a good script, you know, a few $1,000, then an actor, you can find a really good actor, depending on what city you're in, for $1,000 a day, maybe a little bit more, maybe sometimes a little bit less those are the only two costs that I tell you, you have to put the money up for everything else you can get by doing it on the cheap now, if you want the results that we talked about earlier, you want to do everything, the best way, but those are the two places I would say, you got to save your money, and wait to do this if you don't have any, having said that the second part of Step five is, you know, production companies are worth it, if you're looking for the return on the investment that we talked about, everyone else on your timeline is going to be filming their videos with a phone and if you do the same thing, you won't stand out, Marketing is about standing out, disrupting, and stopping that scroll or stopping people hitting that skip button so that's step five production, any questions?

Josh: No, sir, you're on a roll. I'm just gonna let you run with it.

Joseph: Okay, so step six is editing. Now you've heard it said especially with comedy, it's all about timing and that couldn't be more true when it comes to editing so a really good editor who understands timing, comedic timing, is worth their weight in gold so the difference between filming a shot, I mean, we literally did this yesterday, all day yesterday, I was on set directing a commercial and in my mind last night, I'm you know, playing through some of the lines that may not quite have come out the way I thought that they would but I know my editor can fix some of that. It with a good edit from a wide shot to a close up or speeding parts up or slowing parts down, or cutting to a different angle, there's amazing bag of tricks that a good editor has to make good footage, great, final thing about editing, I said it before people don't start watching a video because it's long, they stopped watching because they get bored, if there's one criticism that I will accept of our videos, it's that sometimes people say that too fast, too overwhelming that they can't take it all quite in, they have to watch it again, to really understand what actually did everyone say, that's great, I would way rather take somebody that says it's overwhelming than someone that says I got bored so think about taking out any pauses as I'm on set with my actors, they get tired of me saying suck out the pauses, get rid of the pauses overlap each other almost in your lines, because people get bored when there are pauses and then finally, it's not about creating one video and this is really important, for every video campaign that we do, where you see us tell you, you know, we got millions of dollars in sales and 10s of millions of views and, you know, return on ad spend of 5 6 7 8 9 10. Up to 19.6 return on ad spend for some of our videos not sustained, but for certain periods of time. How do we do that? It's because we don't create one version of the video. In fact, our most popular package, we deliver 36 different versions of the same video, so that the marketing teams have all of the ammunition that they need to test, which one is going to be the most profitable business before they spend a whole bunch of money on the campaign so here's how we get that 36, we write, shoot and edit three totally different opening hooks, the hook of your video is the most important part, that's the first five seconds before they can skip it on YouTube or it's the first five seconds before they'll scroll right past it on Facebook nd so you've got to put the most creativity into that hook, hook has nothing to do with sales. In fact, most of the time, you shouldn't mention the product. Unless there's a really good reason you're there to simply hook their attention and get them to keep watching. So we'll write scripts and edit three different hooks to A B C test, we'll write scripts and edit three different offers to ABC test so one could be buy one get one free one could be get 50% off that essentially the same offer just would a different, one could be an evergreen version without an offer so now we've got nine versions, now we're going to edit the full length version that's about three minutes long, but some platforms won't let you run that so we've a shorter version, maybe it's 60 seconds long so we can get it on TikTok, now we're up to 18 videos. but you don't want to just take one format of your video and put it on all platforms, you want to think about the size of the screen. So we'll do square versions for mobile platforms and wide versions for desktop, like YouTube is always widescreen. So now we're up to 36 versions and that's the difference between just going to Vegas and betting everything on one part of the roulette table, and having 36 different places on that roulette table, so that you've got a more predictable scientific business approach to marketing with this campaign than just let's hope it works. Okay, step seven, we've already really touched on this so I won't spend too long, but this is testing, you really want to be testing every single one of these steps so you know, when you've got your customer avatar test to make sure did I get that customer avatar right, when you've got your brainstorm concept that you've picked? Test your audience, ask them, does this feel like a fun video that you'd want to watch, once you've got your script? Have people read it? Are they getting bored, you want to test test test every stage but the most important part of testing is once you finish, you've got those 36 You're just going to spend a tiny bit of money on each one, enough until Facebook tells you Yes, this one is the winner, now you open the floodgates of your budget and put it all on that winner. Because you're no longer gambling, you're scientifically testing and then executing, final steps. Step number eight, we're getting there, forget going viral, forget going again, we've already talked about this, this is a business campaign, it's a strategy, a viral video, you can't predict you certainly can't repeat, if you look at some of the companies that have had a video go quote unquote, go viral, they typically haven't been able to repeat in lot of cases gone bankrupt because they thought that they could predict doing something like that again, this is more about being ready for that success and I can't tell you this may sound like we're blowing our horn but our past two campaigns have been absolute successes and miserable failures because we oversold and out sold out, our clients were not ready, their inventory was not ready for the number of orders that came and with the supply chain, we've had a big problem, because the campaign's work too well so don't do this until you're ready for the success that it brings so those are the eight steps again that I go into way more detail in the download the eBook on our website but that's how we've essentially done every one of our campaigns for the past five years.

Josh: That was brilliant, I appreciate you going through it. I know it was like, Hey, I'm just gonna sit back and listen, because those eight steps are solid, I love it. I think it's a great way and I would kind of challenge people to look at this and say, can I retool these eight steps into every piece of content I create, right? 

Joseph: Yeah, amen. 

Josh: Watch this over and over again, with podcast hosts. You know, it's like, if there's no strategy behind what they're doing, it doesn't end up hitting at all right? Like bringing your guests on is like the number one most important thing that you do and making sure you bring people who speak to your audience and have that for them, you know, like you're talking about the who, and then brainstorming those ideas coming up with good hooks, that kind of stuff is huge so yeah, absolutely love those eight steps so where can people get access to the ebook, Joseph.

Joseph: So it's just some just right on our website, if you scroll, scroll all the way down to the bottom, you'll see it while you're on that page, right under that download. There's also a place where anyone can schedule a free 30-minute brainstorm session with me to hash out and see if something like this would be right for you. A lot of people say well, what kind of company what size of company? How much money does it cost yada yada. Obviously, every campaign is different but I'll just tell you, we've had huge companies hire us like fortune 500 companies but my proudest accomplishment is the fact that one guy one day came to me and said, I may have to mortgage my house because I'm in so much debt to be able to afford this campaign but I think this is what our company needs, within three months, we have doubled the size of his business paid off all of his debt and profitably month over month, you know, doubling their company sales and so it doesn't matter the size of the company, or the audience, as long as you know you're ready for the success when it comes.

Josh: Yeah, love that. That's 10,000 questions I could ask you about that too. Just it's fun to to break apart that success stories the failure stories know what was different, I love how you shared some of both, you know of the campaign did so well that they didn't have enough supply, right? That's been a huge issue the past couple of years and then on the flip side of the coin of somebody who didn't think they could afford it, who did and that's cool.

Joseph: Now, final note in all transparency, not ever Your campaign is a raging success, even when we do it. I mean, you know, we're certainly not the best in the world, there are other agencies that are a lot bigger than us that we've learned from and creativity is subjective. So, you know, I told that client, don't mortgage your house, he didn't have to in the end, but I've yet to have a client who didn't think it was worth it and the cost didn't get paid back now, is everyone gonna get millions and millions and millions in sales, I can't say that because back to your very first question, you got to have the other 50% of the piece of the pie in place and you've got to have a genuinely good product, I can't, you know, no matter how good marketing is, if it's snake oil, it's not gonna sell.

Josh: right? If it's the same thing as everybody else to if I cast time, it doesn't sell. So, Joseph, I do want to ask just one final question to wrap this interview up. So video is an extremely daunting thing to most people and the way that you're explaining it is, to me, it removes a lot of the fear around producing video in general, because it's saying, hey, you don't even have to be the actor and now we're being told, Oh, you need to be on Facebook Live and all these things every day. Most people aren't confident and comfortable doing that so at what stage in the process, would you recommend somebody start using video to sell their business?

Joseph: Obviously, I'm biased but if you're not using video, it's as if, you know, I heard once heard an analogy of a guy who went on a cruise ship that packed his own baked beans and sausages because he was too cheap to go to the buffet, when the buffet was free and included in the cruise. If you're in business today, I don't care what your industry what your vertical video is a tool that is there for you that if you're not using, you are losing opportunity that is free, with these platforms that we now have, I mean, 20 years ago, I would have literally paid $50,000 for this phone that's in my hand that's in your pocket right now, the excuses for using video have been removed, you don't have to be an actor. Like I said, marketing is like a salad, you don't want to be the actor for this kind of video but if you're not at least jumping on and getting on, like you mentioned Facebook Lives or pre-recorded customer interviews or messages from the CEO or just updates, it's like you're on the cruise and all of these sales and all of these leads are at the buffet table and you just haven't bothered to get out of your cabin and go enjoy them.

Outro: Hope you enjoy this episode of The lucky Titan podcast. If you've learned anything from this or any other episode, make sure you rate it and share it with another entrepreneur could help. Thanks again and I'll catch you on the flip side