The Lucky Titan

Fill Any Program, Sell Out Any Offer and Create Income On Demand With Laura Wright

August 02, 2022 Josh Tapp
The Lucky Titan
Fill Any Program, Sell Out Any Offer and Create Income On Demand With Laura Wright
Show Notes Transcript

Laura has closed a cool $43 million and then some over the past 20 years and she’s the
founder of EPIC at Sales, but, for a time Laura Wright’s life was anything but epic. After her
real estate company crashed and burned in 2008 (along with the rest of the economy),
Laura found herself over $500,0000 in debt— while being the sole provider of her family,
no less. There, she was lost, demoralized, and doubting her ability to rise up from this
setback, until she remembered two of her greatest gifts: the power to see the potential in
ANY situation and the ability to close just about any sale with love. A few years later, Laura
has made a name for herself in the coaching industry as the go-to “Sales Ninja” for service-
based women in business, helping her clients scale to six-figures within months and cross
seven-figures in record time. She’s also expanded her mission to change the way all
women rise from entrepreneurial dips and even wrote the rulebook to prove it, No Woman
Down: 51 Lessons To Create Your Epic Income Rise. A Self-Published Author, Speaker,
Growth Strategist, and Master Sales Coach, Laura’s approach to creating wealth and
scaling businesses is simple, effective and steeped in the absolute belief that sales is love.
Laura currently lives in Baltimore with her Hubby, their kiddo and their 2 pups a gentle giant
Bernese Mountain Dog and ferocious King Charles Caviler.

Learn more about Laura and down load her book here: https://www.laurawrightofficial.com/ 
https://thesouldsisters.com/ 
https://thesouldsisters.com/gift

Intro: Welcome to the Lucky Titan podcast where you will learn how to fill your favorite platform with tons of your dream customers from some of the world's top entrepreneurs. I'm your host, Josh Tapp now let's get started. 

Josh: What is up everybody, Josh Tapp here again and welcome back to the lucky Titan podcast and today we're here with Laura Wright. We've had a great conversation before this, we were just talking about all the different things she's been doing how we connected. So I love the pre interview and like I've mentioned many times on this show, I just wish I could just record the whole thing, but some people would get mad at me. 

Laura: You should do it, you should just do it. 

Josh: Let's do it, Laura, because we just had a bunch of really good conversation. I'm excited to carry it over here into this interview today. So Laura is the founder of sold Inc. So this is such an awesome company. I was excited to bring her on because this lady really helps people amplify sales, do it quickly. And she loves working with women, which is also fun for me because I bring a lot of people on who work with women so I just got to start connecting all of you and make it happen but anyways, good. Good to have you here. Laura. First off, say what's up to everybody. We'll hop in.

Laura: Hello, hello. Hello. I'm very excited to be here. And let's dive in.

Josh: Let's do it. Well, and Laura, I am excited to get to know a little bit about your methodology. Right? I have to let me find it really quick but you said when you sent it I always asked my my guests. This is like if this were a mastermind, what would you name it and I loved I loved your line said fill any program. So any offer and create income on demand? Yes, support that.

Laura: So this is my favorite thing of why I love the land of soul and sales is when you have the ability to understand who you are, what you do and how to monetize it. When you have this skill of sales. You can do exactly what I just said, the linear program sell out any offer, you can create income on demand. It's the thing that I love the most about being an entrepreneur. I remember a couple of years back, we were buying a house my husband and I and he at the time was working in a job He's a chef are we retired him. So he's a former chef, he's we always say is a chef for one persnickety family right now it's us. But at the time, he had, you know, a chef job and even as an executive chef, they do not make a lot of money and we were going to buy this house and they saw him as the golden star, you have a job and this is how much money we can give you to buy the house and here I was owning operating a multi six figure business and I was actually seen as the liability on the loan, because they didn't like trust and believe in my abilities to always earn and I would always getting this frustrating moment of like, if you told me I need to go make $20,000 Today, give me a couple hours and I can get it done that's what the skill of sales allows you to do. And the freedom of entrepreneurship is if you can craft an offer around your magnificence and know how to connect with another human and if your soul matches their need, there you go, that's a sale.

Josh: Yeah, see, I love that. But it's funny because you're you're speaking to an entrepreneurial crowd. And they're all saying, Yep, I've tried getting a home loan to my wife and I went a couple years ago to try and get a loan for a home and we were doing almost a million dollars in sales, and they wouldn't give us a loan.

Laura: I was like, I can tell you this secret. I can tell you the secret because we've bought three houses now since Yeah, just need 20% down and to income and then you get the money and they're very happy to give it to you.

Josh: Yeah, and that's that's what we found Sears, we just said, Let's just buy it in cash. So we just because the day, I don't like supporting banks, but anyways, good stuff. I love that and so you know, it's funny, because in the conversation before we were having before this interview, we were talking about the different ways that people like the personas people try to take on when they try to sell and you know, I mentioned like for a lot of women I've worked with in the sales realm when they're doing sales, they'll try to take on like a masculine energy, when it's not who they are or they'll try to be more of a flirt when it's not who they are and guys will take on more of like a douchey side or they'll take on more of a 

Laura: don't get me started. 

Josh: hyper-aggressive. Like just be yourself, right? So it's true. Is that how you're how you're working with people on that?

Laura: Yeah. Okay, so here's the thing. The way that sales works is number one, you do need to understand processes and framework, my coming up. I remember my very first sales experience, it was just terrible. I mean, it was wonderful and terrible. I'll say that all together, I learned the we call it PMS pale male and stale and with love but that means like the old broken way and it's the coercion the doucheyness is all of that bro stuff that makes your skin crawl it's the pound the pavement hound the person get the yes no matter what and guess what If that doesn't work, I can't stand the concept of it's all about the numbers. It's not about the numbers, it's actually about connection so when I started learning all those techniques, I, I couldn't do them, like I learned them, and they felt horrible and I remember I always tell a story until it fell twice, they actually, I used to sit next to this really lovely woman, and she's very sweet and she would come into the office early PS, I'm a really terrible employee, which is why corporate lasted like four years for me, she would come in, and we would get our list of leads to go sell for and she would just pound the pavement virtually and on the phone, like she would just call call call there was never no her philosophy was it's never know, it's just not right now and she would just go and go and go, and she would stay late and do all the things and then I would come in late, I would usually get a bagel or coffee, I would talk with somebody, I would make one phone call, make a sale, go to lunch, maybe I'd do something in the afternoon, I usually leave early and she and I have this same close rates, and it used to drive her body and I'll tell you what I did differently than what she did so everyone else can do that. Number one, I was myself in genuine on every single call so when I got into the conversation, it was genuinely about connection. Now I was selling events and trade shows things that were like, you know, $4 million events to like a $75,000, booth and an exhibition, all different things but they weren't like, it wasn't a magical sale like transformation exactly the way that I do now but I would get on a call with a human, even if they were representative of another company and I would ask about their family, I would talk with them about real topics, I would walk them through the sales process and they would say yes, because they want to buy from someone they know, like and trust and so when you can do that, it changes everything. The other thing that I was doing differently, this is just a little hint to anyone who's in a traditional sales setting is usually what happens when you get like a list of leads, or you get calls that come in, everyone always goes in hammers from the top down and what I would do is I would take my list of leads, and I would just sit there and I would kind of energetically scan the list and see where my eye would catch and when I would see somebody's name, that would be the person I would reach out to that person 99% of the time was the buyer, what everyone else does is they just go waste all their energy trying to do the numbers and talk with everybody, my philosophy is if you want for sales, I want you to talk to four people, maybe five, if you just want to like have a little extra just in case, you don't need to go speak to 30,000 people in order to get a handful of sales.

Josh: Yeah. See, and that's such a unique perspective, or like the reason it intrigues me is because we've even found with the way that we do sales, you know, of leveraging podcasts to generate relationships and build value for people, we found that, you know, less can be more, but it also is good to get the rep so I'm kind of curious how you're bridging that gap because a lot of people I mean, you're never gonna learn how to sell until you try it.

Laura: Correct. Oh, so my favorite thing is sales, just FYI but why I love sales is because as you learn to do it, you actually make money while you're doing it so it's okay, I think one of the big things is I'll talk about like sales teams and numbers and volume and everything but what I want everyone to understand is that when you're on that sales conversation and you're making a connection, you need to have detachment from the outcome and I think this is one of the biggest, like, let downs that happens with sales is people when you have too few leads, they become so precious, that if this person doesn't buy in, I can't pay my mortgage, and I'm freaking out, that's the energy that's conveyed on the sales call, there is no script that can beat that if your energy is scrambled or worry so you really need to understand there's billions of people on this planet, I do not care what your niche is, I don't care what your business is. There are probably more people in this world than you could serve in a lifetime, even if you had access to them. Relax that one person in front of you give them time energy and space but they're not the only person that has to buy the other thing I think is this and this is the part that has always been very like hard for me when I come in and I help someone redesign their sales team is that there is this philosophy and concept around Beatrix that's my puppy if you can still hear this. 

Josh: Leave it in she's a human guys come on.

Laura: She's amazing. She is Beatrix kiddo as in Kill Bill and she will. She'll cut Yeah. We have two pups. We also have a Bernese Mountain Dog Oliver, who's 135 pounds and you can't see her but Beatrix is a little tiny King Charles Cavalier, and she's like 12 pounds and she will smack him in the face.

Josh: He's like she's like a mouthful to him. Yep, it's back to the sales though. So

Laura: Back to the sales thing. So what I see so often is that people spend so much money on lead generation and they are doing churn and burn sales and what I mean by that is the person comes in, they need to immediately buy if they don't, they're discarded, and what I teach differently is that when you have somebody who comes to you, this is a lead to nurture, sometimes the first conversation is the close. And that's what I teach, I teach the five steps to Yes, so that you can connect with somebody, you can find out what their struggle is, you can identify their vision, you can give them an invitation, and they will say yes, and if they are new to you not ready to buy, it doesn't match. Well, what do you do with them, most people discard people, they just put them into their list, what I like to do is actually say, in a safe space of nurture, it's two steps, it's normally either if you identify with them, or someone you're talking to that is close to being a buyer, I keep them in my feed, I keep talking with them, I nurture them, if I think they're going to be long term, I continue to nurture them. This is where people always ask the question is that how much follow up is to follow up too much follow up. It's not that it's about being in a place of filling your pipeline with humans and here's what I mean by that. I spoke to a woman actually today, depending on when you listen to this, who knows when that was, but it's a pretty common experience. I got her on a call, we have total alignment, she's super smart, I know her business, I know how we can like scale her she's, she's a service based business owner, and she's stuck at where most people get stuck, you can only do so much one on one, it doesn't matter what you charge, you just can't hit past a revenue goal and so I gave her a couple of fun ideas that she can scale and then she says to me, Laura, I'm already in a mastermind, and I just resigned for six more months, I can't work with you right now and most people would say failed sale, push her off, go to the next person, what I said was fantastic, would you like to talk in about five months and by the way, you need to come into our Facebook group, I have this other special training, it's a free thing, go try it out, I am going to nurture connect, she is a long line lead for me, I have another woman who I met in 2018 and if you're listening to this right now, it's June of 2022 and I've known her since that time and about once a year, I would do a little touch base and genuine one to find out what's going on with her December of 2021 is when she stepped into our program, now, I will also tell you this, I know she will be a client for life, like I know that she will not only thrive in our community, she will buy again and again and again but what's more important, is I'm gonna watch her grow and thrive and that's what I care about. So when you start to really stop thinking about the numbers, and you really start thinking about the humans, what does somebody need to know to say yes to you now and if they're not now, there's a difference between resistance there's a difference between overcoming an objection and the fear of buying if somebody is actually aligned and they're not to say yes, why would you discard them I say, nurture them.

Josh: Yeah. Man, I love this methodology. Because, you know, we work a lot with podcasters and they're trying to sell a coaching program, right? They're saying, Hey, I've got this big coaching program to them. It's because it's $5,000. Right and they're so excited about selling their $5000, our coaching program. And the problem they run into a lot of times is that they they're doing exactly what you said, right? They asked some and I'm already part of mastermind, Ah, dang it, boom and then they never talked to him again. And what we always talk about is, I love your touchpoint pages, touch bases in five months, what's what's it going to hurt you to put them on a list in a CRM and just say, remind me in five months to talk to this person, right but what we found is that if they're not qualified for your offer, most of the times they have other problems that they need solved anyways and if you just make it part of your priority to connect them with people who can help them solve those other problems they eventually buy from you, it's the craziest thing and some people are like, Oh, what's a waste of my time might well, not really first off because you'll eventually get a sale but on top of that, they might just start kicking your referrals, we have this happen all the time, people who aren't even sales like they haven't bought their hammer to buy these guys at some point, that's usually their intro, we're gonna have to buy this person at some point but come hire him on

Laura: I'm nodding the whole time. I don't think no one can see this. I'm like nodding the whole time. It's actually one of my favorite things to do when I connect with somebody with a genuine connection call and there's not a sale moment or there's not an ask, I will always find out there's a thing that I say at the end of all of my connection calls because there's a difference between connection calls and sales calls. But PS I'll tell you a little secret. I run all my calls like a sales call and I'll talk about that too but it's because it feels good. No one feels like I just sales should not ever feel slimy, I don't do it in a way that anyone's going to feel uncomfortable but when I'm talking with somebody my thing that I always end with is what's your big ask? If I could just hand something to you that you needed right this minute, what would it be a connection to a person, a type of person, a introduction, an actual tool. In fact, that's how I gave the woman that I spoke to earlier today a little, here's how to go scale your business is because when I asked her, she said, I'm stuck, I need to scale my business and I said, Great, here's how to do it. When you can give someone a tool, you are correct, you get a, like a legacy connection. There's one more thing I want to say about like referrals and connecting people. I used to do this when I hosted live events for years, I'd take a moment and I'd have people stand up in the room and show that this is actually how referrals work. I might refer to you, Josh, but then Josh, you're gonna go send a referral to Tina. Tina is going to send a referral to Jane and Jane will send a referral to me. Now what we think is we think what has to happen with referrals is if I send people to you, Josh, well, then you sure better send them back to me and that's actually not how it goes, I do truly believe that the way that energy works is, when you are out there, you've heard the term givers gain but when you're out there putting stuff into the world, it's going to return to you the way you need.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. I love that. I wish I could like spend hours asking you questions about that, because I think that's such. 

Laura: It'd be coming back. 

Josh: Yeah, you’ll be coming back, don't you worry as if I can force you to come back on the show, love to have you come back on. You know, what's what's interesting to me too, about trying to lead value first, or making those referrals is that many times we get hung up on, like trying to figure out who to refer to people and you know, it's funny to me, that's ever been an issue for me because I can see a clear connection but as we've coached so many people in this, they tend to get concerned about, well, who do I refer and when?

Laura: Yeah, yeah, I have everything I want to say about this. Okay, so not everybody can do connections, the way that I I'm assuming you, but I know how I can do and so what I always suggest is that they go find Laura find the connector as opposed to trying to find clients for people because again, it's a natural innate, a lot of us who are high quickstarts, like on Colby, I'm a manifester. In Human Design those of us who initiate those of us who are considered extroverted, tend to know how to naturally engage and connect and also can do it in the moment, this is why I also what I teach about sales is we don't do things the same way I sell a different way than you sell than everybody else sells, you need a framework to follow, so you'll know if it works but like I'm a happy clappy person. I am usually like literally clapping and sometimes shimmying on calls and that's my energy but I would not ask somebody who is like soulful or soft or quiet to try to pretend to be like me, I want you to be the most you and connections are one of those things that some of us can see it. Sometimes what it is about is it doesn't have to be immediate I think that's another thing that shows up is I walked one of my past clients through this thing where the way we changed her sales process and it was actually for her referrals to was on the spot she would like stop the way that her makeup was she was all about finding information and she literally needed to leave the call, digest it, organize it when she came back, the most brilliant things were said the most brilliant options were presented but in the moment, it wasn't something she could respond to, it's just part of her human design and the way she's made now so we created a system for her sales process where she could do interview style gathering of information, and no one had an expectation that she would present anything, then she got to leave the call, put her brilliant mind to work her head, heart and soul into this invitation, then get on a secondary call, and she would knock the socks off everybody, we did the same thing with connections where when somebody was in the moment asking her something, it was like her mind would go blank but if she left the call, even like a month later, she was the type of person that would have the mental Rolodex to know, I'm talking with Sarah, she has to know Tim, and boom so I think believing you have to do an immediate thing, I think this goes back to what we're talking about with like the churn and burn of sales, I met a woman today whatever time you're listening to this, we got on a conversation and there's no sale to be had right now but she's an awesome connection and I don't know what it's going to turn into. So I said, let's keep in touch but that's what a lot of people do. They get on connection. So like let's keep in touch and it floats away. My version of keep in touch is I found out something she's promoting coming up in a couple months and I said let's touch base when you're doing that, it just gives us a reason in the clock and that's what creates stickiness around creating a pipeline creating can connections and allowing you to have lasting long term sales, not just immediate sales moments.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, that's brilliant. Well, and you know, it's funny, the, the outreach, and the way that you do it, I think is brilliant, because I've been trying to get people to understand this, oh, here's how you connect with people, people like, Oh, you just have that mental Rolodex is what you said, I love that term. I would say that's a talent and skill of mine but with our sales team, what we found that works well. So we have six guys and men and we do a call every single morning, a little powwow to kind of kick the day off, and we all sit down and at the beginning, they were all asking me, Josh, would you connect this person with this, and it was, you know, 30 40 people, and I just kicked off names, and then they would make the connection and but now it's been funny as we've been doing that more and more, two of the six have risen up as kind of like me where they have that mental Rolodex and so they're kicking people leads all day, every day, while the four people come into these calls, they leave with a list, they make the connection, and it works just as well, because like they like you said they found a Laura, who knows who has that mental Rolodex, that's cool. I really liked that.

Laura: Yeah, that's another thing that's really important is to understand. So my business partner, and I have something that's a archetype test for understanding how you are how you sell and I think what's really important about that is that not everybody sells or can initiate doing outreach the same way and I think where everyone gets stuck is this concept of sales, I think there's two big flaws to it, one, almost no one is actually taught sales when they go into entrepreneurship or business and so they look around for a model of somebody who's done it and they just do what everybody else did, which doesn't actually work and it goes back to what we were talking about the beginning where they just try to do what someone else is doing, what I understand is this, you need to know how you initiate are you somebody that feels comfortable reaching out, if you don't feel comfortable doing it, don't do it, it won't work. However, if you need to have a process by which to do outreach, because that is my, if I was going to if I had to start over from scratch, just like I'd say, give me a phone, I don't think these things are phones anymore but give me a way to connect to some humans, and I'm going to make a few phone calls and I can make some money. But if that doesn't feel comfortable for you, and you try to do it, it's actually going to block everything. So there's other ways to initiate outreach, there's ways to get the invitation to like find the Laura who's going to feed you invitations, there's ways to put out posts or send messages that get people to respond to you. But if you can balance outbound marketing, and pulling people towards you with that nurture, touch and outreach, you are going to have the best sales ever, because it you need the both and if you do one directional only, you will have a very short pipeline. Oh, and that makes me think I just want to talk about this so much, you need to know your buyers sales cycle, this is critical. So I've said a couple of different stories of different people buying at different times but one of the things that we've learned is, on average, our buyers buy from us within three to six months and the way that that happens and why we know that is we watch when they come into our community or when they're introduced to us, they usually come to about three months worth of either monthly marketing moments, or they will post on things and then about the three to six month mark they will buy, it doesn't mean that somebody doesn't come into our world and by same day, so like remember, one of my beloved clients have had for years, very first conversation I ever met her, she would be considered I guess a cold lead I We always joke around, we can't figure out where we met each other but somehow she got on my calendar, a $45,000 sale within like 30 minutes of our calls, she was saying yes. Now that happens, but I don't rely on that I don't rely on every single person I talk to will by immediately I know three to six months is average and yes, there are the outliers. We've had people who've been around us for 234 or five years before they buy the PS, I'm going to be around for more than two or three or five years so they can come to buy with us but when I know that I can balance nurture with marketing and always have a full program.

Josh: Yeah. I am curious with that, though, because you know, we talked about this, in the beginning is I believe you should pivot every two to three years. And my curiosity and I'm not saying you have to like close one business and start another making strategic adjustments. I'm curious how you can still be around for people when you make those pivots because if their sales cycle is in fact five years, and you pivot halfway through, how are you not losing them along the way?

Laura: I love that question because the word pivot needs some definitions kind of like when you say blue, blue can be sky blue or in light blue, is it blue? So a pivot can be a one or two degree shift, or a pivot can be I was gonna say a 360. But I think I mean a 180. Yeah, so

Josh: 360 happens a lot for entrepreneurship, though.

Laura: That's true. That's true. And I will say, So throughout my business, I have always had a flavor of a high level mastermind, I usually transform it about every, maybe two years, like a two cycle, I've had it as a six month I've had as a nine month I've had as a 12 month, I've had retreats inside of it private inside of it, none of that, like so, what I want you to hear is I've changed my programs and how people can work with me, but the who I am and what I serve that stayed the same and then I know what you're saying about the pivot and the change, because about those 2019, I started to feel like it was in a rinse and repeat with my company, like epic and sales was the name of my company, I was transitioning just to go entirely by my name, Laura Wright worldwide and I felt just a little stagnation. I had, you know, I knew how to sell I'd gotten people in, I was excited by my clients but I wasn't feeling all the way lit up and then a fortunate thing happened with COVID and some things had to change and in that change, I also started to partner with my now former business partner where we have sold Inc, we started to play together in my business and have that pivot and then we created a new company, I will also say with transparency, our new company, is what we both did, individually, really, really well brought together, it's not like the pivot isn't, I'm selling sandwiches and now I'm a web designer. Our pivot was, we now do things in partnership, instead of just sending referrals, the pivot was instead of doing all in person we went to online so I think if you can define what you mean by pivot, you can keep things fresh and exciting, what I'm a big fan of is ascension model selling, allowing people to see like I always talked about the fact that I have $100,000 offer, I love this way of working, I come in and I help transform sales teams, it's really deeply connected program that I do, it's usually over 12 months, I usually only do it with one to max three clients in a year. And I talk about it because I'm helping women build up to that, we also have our $30,000 mastermind, which is filled with amazing women who are building those multi six figure businesses getting ready for the seven figure and we also have our inner circle and our inner circle is, you know, a way to move beyond solopreneur into like having a scalable business but if I only had one of those ways, then people can come in and go out, what we want is for people to come in, get what they need and ascend and sometimes people show up. And I hate that hierarchy but they show up at the highest level and that's what they need and they come in and then they can go but if you can have an ascension model, it really allows you to have longevity within your business so your pivot is a little bit different than most people's.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. See, that's fantastic. I am also a huge fan of the ascension model, because you're solving different problems problems along the way and I also just want to throw this out there just as a nugget in people's ears that the ascension model doesn't always need to be just your products, it can be services and products of other people, I'm a huge advocate of that.

Laura: I love it. And I want I want to say that yes, because I cannot tell you how many times the reason why my business partner and I are together is because the way that we had been functioning for about almost eight years is you know, when you say something to someone that you love, and they don't hear you, but then they learn it from somebody else and then all of a sudden, they're like, oh my god, I just heard this new thing so we did things very similar so we would pass clients back and forth and when we were doing that so frequently, it was really fun to watch people wait, come back around, I also really want to say this about ascension, if you have your ascension model set up, so it's only that they have to matriculate that is very rigid as well, I don't believe in the low ticket sale to the higher ticket sale to the higher to the higher, allow people to actually arrive where they need to buy.

Josh: Right, love that. That's a beautiful, beautiful and I should just edit it, dang it. That was a good mic drop, I'm just kidding. 

Laura: we're gonna talk forever.

Josh: We'll just turn it off, I do want to just let everybody know, though, that Laura has an amazing gift for you all and I'm going to tell you exactly what it is. I'm just going to tease it and say, if you want to improve your selling, and you want to make sure that you're doing it in a way that makes you comfortable, go over to it's thesouldsisters.com forward/gift and sould as sould. Like it's got sold so make sure you guys check that out and then Laura, I just wanna ask you one final question because we've gone way over, but it was highly, highly valuable so I appreciate it. If you could give one sales tactic to somebody who's sitting at, let's just say, half a million dollars, and they're saying, Oh, my goodness, I've stagnated like that client you mentioned earlier, they've completely stagnated in sales, how would you help them and will be the one piece of advice you would give them to be able to, to be able to scale it up?

Laura: If you're at a half a million, and you don't already have leverage with the sales team, that's the number one thing is to leverage a sales team. The second thing that I would say within that is, don't take yourself out of the proper seat in your business. Now, here's what I mean by that, I have helped many women's scale and almost remove themselves from the business and I remember having a client who she's like, I feel disconnected from what we're doing, like I'm making lots of money I love like what we're doing and what we saw was she's so magnificent at sales so does she do all the sales, absolutely not, does she take an occasional call? Yes. And what that does is that helps her to hear and see what's going on. I want to give a third warning sign with too much of an overcomer and this best best way. Please, please please, for the love of all things holy and good, marketing and sales are not separate. Please, please, please, marketing department, tell your sales, what they're experiencing sales department, give feedback to your marketing department and give it not with like, these leads are not good. Explain, Hey, I just talked to three people in a row and they both had a spouse objection, we need to insert something in our marketing to start to overcome that before they come to me or I just talked with seven people who said that they can barely pay their basic bills, we need to tweak something on our audience,mwhen the marketing is like, talk in tandem. That's the biggest thing that I see is I start to see that right around 350 to 500 you start to create departments and they separate and one hand is doing all I brought you 1200 leads why didn't you close them I talked with 25 people that weren't effective. Why do you give us bad leads, have the conversation to understand what's actually happening from both sides of your business. 

Outro: Hopefully you enjoyed this episode of The lucky Titan podcast. If you've learned anything from this or any other episode, make sure you rate it and share it with another entrepreneur could help. Thanks again and I'll catch you on the flip side