The Lucky Titan

How to Create a Successful Online Business Doing What You Love With Deacon Hayes

February 24, 2021 Josh Tapp
The Lucky Titan
How to Create a Successful Online Business Doing What You Love With Deacon Hayes
The Lucky Titan
How to Create a Successful Online Business Doing What You Love With Deacon Hayes
Feb 24, 2021
Josh Tapp

Deacon Hayes is a personal finance expert who founded Well Kept Wallet, a company that helps people make money, save money, and pay off debt. 

Deacon has been featured in many news publications including Yahoo Finance, US News & World Report, CNN Money, and more.

Show Notes Transcript

Deacon Hayes is a personal finance expert who founded Well Kept Wallet, a company that helps people make money, save money, and pay off debt. 

Deacon has been featured in many news publications including Yahoo Finance, US News & World Report, CNN Money, and more.

Josh: What is up everybody, Josh Tapp here again and welcome back to The lucky Titan podcast and today we are here with Deacon Hayes so excited to have him here today because Deacon is actually kind of the Yin to the Yang for one of the episodes we just launched, you know, we talked about with Jack McCall, about his, you know, taking on debt in a business to be able to scale your company and I wanted to bring in Deacon because he's all about leveraging money, really to become more successful not only in your business, but in life and I'm excited to have him on here because unlike most entrepreneurs, Deacon has really set himself up as really just an educational hub. You know, most of us I even myself included, you know, every time we do something, we kind of do it with the intention of selling our products. But deacons really here just to educate and provide great value. And I'm really excited to have him here. But I also I’m just going to hard pitch his website for all of you, because I don't know if he's going to do it. So you can check out everything that we talked about here and everything that he covers as far as making money saving money investing and lots of other different things, including in the money, you can check it out it at is that correct, Deacon? 

Deacon: Yep, that's right. 

Josh: Awesome well, they can say what's up to everybody? And then let's hop in man. 

Deacon: Hey, everybody, I'm glad to be here. This is exciting. 

Josh: It'll be a fun interview. I'm excited because we can do it unscripted and just kind of flow from here. So my big question for you, Deacon starting off is, you know, everybody obviously wants to know, like your a short version of your journey of how you actually got into teaching people about managing money. 

Deacon: Yeah, so it started with me making poor financial decisions, right. So I grew up my mom was a single mom on welfare didn't really know a lot about money growing up. So when I, you know, when I got older, I got credit cards, I went out and bought stuff, and I racked up a bunch of debt, and realize like, Oh my gosh, like, I have no idea what I'm doing right? So I need to figure this out. So fast forward, I get married, my wife and I combine our finances and we're like, holy crap, we got $52,000 of debt and we're just starting life out, right? Like, if we keep this trend we're gonna have like, and this is not mortgage debt. This is just outside of mortgage debt. Right? So I had hundreds of 1000s of dollars in mortgage debt. I had a rental property, all this stuff and I'm like, man, I need to figure this out. So I like to study from people that have been successful. So I was like, okay, I've heard of Dave Ramsey I went to his class, I learned some stuff from him. Another guy named Ron blue, Clark Howard, Suzy Orman, you know, you name it Jim Cramer. Like I want to figure out everything I can about money. I was like, man, I actually liked this stuff, right? And so at the time, I was selling wood flooring, and I'm like, hey, if we could pay off our 52 grand in 18 months, because I like to set a goal, like set a deadline and say, hey, let's tackle this thing and we can live. You know, Dave Ramsey has this quote that I love. It's live like no one else so that you can live like no one else right? So it's like, for 18 months, it's buckled down. We're young, we'll figure it out and so we paid off all 52 grand in debt and I was like, Man, this is so much more fun than selling wood flooring, right? And now I had the first-hand experience of like, Hey, I had credit card debt, I had student loans, I had a car loan, I had all this stuff and I had to figure out how to get rid of it, and develop systems and plan to do it. So I'm like, Hey, now I have kind of a skill set that I can use to help other people. And that's kind of how it all began. 

Josh: So and I love that because really, I feel like the best businesses come out of the mess that you had, you know, you fix your mess and that becomes the message. You know, Dean Graziosi is kind of a big, big advocate of that messaging but you really were able to take a really, honestly a crappy situation that I would say what 70% of people in the US are struggling with that exact same problem might be more I'd like to hear your thoughts on on the statistic on that But you know, these people who've got the student loans, they've got all this debt and you know, specifically with our audience, a lot of it comes to, you know, the financial situation of their business is what's really kind of impacting them. So I do want to kind of turn the conversation that direction, knowing you know, the people who are listening to this show, if they've already passed that six figure point, what are kind of the big goals, you would recommend for a lot of them being somebody who set such rock solid goals? 

Deacon: Yeah, so I think one of the things that I look at is like, what are your personal goals? right? So for us, it was to be debt free, right and it's less of a mathematical equation, right? Because everybody, especially the high income earners, and people are like, Oh, I can invest in the stock market and get 10% why would I pay off 5% debt or whatever and it's more about, we're psychological beings, we're emotional beings, right? So you got to say, hey, yeah, the math is one component but the other part is, what's my mental health, right? How do I feel at the end of day, am I anxious because I've got all this debt, and I've got all these responsibilities. Well, and I want to get rid of that anxiety well, part of getting rid of that anxiety could be paying off your debt so one of our next goals was to be completely debt free, which we're now completely debt free we paid off our mortgage, we sold our second home, and we're just completely we don't have that risk, right. I don't have it I can sleep good at night because I don't have financial anxiety so that's it that's a step that I think for a lot of entrepreneurs, because it's risky, your income is variable, right? It could be cut in half tomorrow and I'm sure some people have seen that through COVID that like, hey, my income is not what it used to be and so I need to figure out systems to keep me mentally stable right So that's one component. Another component is figuring out an investing strategy outside of your business I see for a lot of entrepreneurs, they're successful in their business, but they're not successful outside of it right so you have to say, Oh, well, should I be investing in real estate? Should I be investing in the stock market? If so, what is that plan? What does that look like? How much should I put from the profit from my business into those other investments? So I'm diversified outside of just my business?

Josh: Yeah, and I think that there's a lot of wisdom in that because you know, we all kind of know, we need to diversify but there's, I mean, the hardest thing, as an entrepreneur, I'll even just share my personal experience with this a lot of people will tell you, Oh, I hate to be in the stock market, you know, and for us, I know that, okay but if I put, if I roll money back into my company, it's going to double in a month, whereas I put in the stock market's going to double in, what, seven years, you know. So for you, I mean, what's kind of your recommendation? I know, obviously, this, you know, disclaimer, none of this is advice you'd counsel with, with somebody who is your financial advisor, or what have you, but you what's kind of your recommendation as far as where to start for a lot of these people who want to take it to that next level with their money. 

Deacon: Right? I mean, I think that that basic road is what are the tax advantaged accounts that are available right? So do you qualify for a Roth IRA? If you if you know, if you make under a certain threshold you do If you make over that? You don't, right, so you have to look at, okay, if Roth IRA is not available than a traditional IRA, and then if a traditional IRA is no longer available, SEP IRA, right, or solo 401k So, really, it does start to come into like, Who is your financial advisor, your account? And then what is the best vehicle for you, but maxing out those account right? I mean, I think it's like six grand for like an IRA, that's not a lot of money, especially for a high end, you know, high income earner so that's easy to do, just say, hey, set it Forget it, invest in some sort of index fund but I will say, it is more about your goals, right? So at the end of the day, businesses are gonna, they're gonna fluctuate, and so you got to say, hey, I want to have some stability and so figuring out a percentage of your income, I usually say 15%, right? It's, it's a, it's a number that's going to give you like, hey, if I just put 15% away into some sort of account that's going to grow outside of my business, I have some sort of stability, I know that that money is going to go in the stock market, and the stock market has done a certain amount percentage, let's say, eight to 10% over the past 50 60 years, right? So you're like, hey, that's more of a stable play It's less of a hey, yeah, I know, I can double my money in my business you're gonna do that. But you need to have some stable money on the side.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's really interesting, because, you know, I, myself, I didn't look into real estate for years, just because of that reason. Yeah, I might, well, I, I can grow my company and your money will keep coming but like you said, if you have more stable forms of income, like that, your, your setup to kind of be protected. So I want to ask you this question because this isn't one of those. There's people have like polar opinions on it, right? There's either like, burn the boats, or there's hedge against your bets, right? Like, make sure you always have a good, safe security blanket for yourself. So what side are you on? Or do you think that there's a middle ground? Or where are you on that? Are you missing? 

Deacon: Yeah, I think there's I think there's always a middle ground I think that's the challenge is like, when people put themselves in a false dichotomy of like, it's either this or this, right? The reality is, is you always have options and that's why I love being an entrepreneur, because it's like, what are those other options right, like exploring discovering. And so for me, it's saying, No, I want both ends, right? I want to take the risk, but I also want stability, right? And so it's just, it's figuring out what that number is for you as an entrepreneur, maybe it's 10%. Maybe it's 20%, you know, where you say, hey, I want to take more risks. So therefore, I'm going to put less money in the stable, you know, investing. So really, it's just saying, like, what's your risk tolerance? And what are you willing to do? And for me, it's, it's, it's really about, like, if it comes down to it freedom, right? If I have financial security, I have freedom to go do pursue the things that I want to do. I have security, right? I have that peace of mind that like, Hey, I don't have any debt I have my obligations are low. Like, I feel secure I don't have to worry about I have so many friends that are high income earners that are leveraged up to their eyeballs, and they don't have that security, right? They think like, how am I going to get the next deal so that I can pay future stuff that I owe, you know, and so that can be really mentally wearing on people, you know, and so just really kind of where are you in that spectrum of freedom and security and saying, hey, I want more security. So therefore, I'm going to start investing paying off debt while I'm growing my business, but that's gonna obviously take a little bit of the fuel away but that's okay. Because you know that this is something you personally need for everybody that's a different, you know, equation.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. And I love that that concept because it's, there really is no like set magic method to make things work. Unfortunately, if you're listening to this, and you're hoping there is like a magical system that's going to make you a millionaire, there's just not. It's picking the pieces that fit well with who you are and your values, like you're saying, and then applying those in a financial platform or financial setting so well, 

Deacon: but I think the cool thing is, so if we were to say the millionaire piece, though, that I think anybody in America can accomplish, like I 100% believe that, because you have what's called compounding and compounding interest, right? It's super simple. It's a mathematical equation. If you put $200 away every paycheck for 45 years and put it in stock market, you basically will have $1.1 million, right? Like this is this is just a mathematical equation and if you're a business owner, that's super easy. If you're a high income earner, right? You're like, Hey, I can easily put 4800 bucks or whatever ends up being away for this period of time and become a millionaire. The question is not less about the millionaire and it's more of like the quality of life, right? and I think that's where people get stuck. It's like, why do you want to be a millionaire? A lot of people want to be a millionaire, because they want freedom they want security. Right? Well, can you have that without having a million dollars? Absolutely, right. It's just building a plan to get there and then it's just a question of how long until you become a millionaire and how quickly do you have that freedom of security that you want?

Josh: Yeah, and I love that you bring that up. Because this is a point that I've touched on a lot with people and it's something I'm kind of passionate about with it, because I have yet to meet somebody who can really blow a million dollars on lifestyle, write a million dollars a year and if you're a millionaire listening to this, you know, this, like, you get to a point where literally, you have everything you could really need and it's more of just do I want a private jet? Do I want a yacht? You know, like, none of those things are really needs they're just wants, you know, and the reality is in the EU and in the United States, at least for those of you who are here I mean, that's, you don't really need that much to live a very happy lifestyle. Some people maybe they're like, hey, I want the castle on the hill right? But it's, it's really intriguing to me to see like, most people who want to be millionaires don't realize that they could have an amazing lifestyle, especially with the time freedom, making significantly less than that. 

Deacon: Yeah, there's a book I don't know if you read called The Millionaire Next Door by Thomas Stanley. 

Josh: Yeah. 

Deacon: And I just I love that for people that are listening, where it's just like, these are actual millionaires and how they live and how they add less than $300,000 house and their average car was like $34,000 and you start to realize, like, well, if I have a car that has Bluetooth and keyless entry, and literally, it's reliable, and has nice seats, and whatever, like, I'm happy, like if I have a house that can fit my family, and I've got an office and I can't have a yard and like I'm happy, like the having the mansion having the fancy car, like, it's not what brings happiness, right and I think that's where a lot of people get hung up, like, you see those lambos in those videos and I'll be honest, they're like, yeah, that's cool but um, but I remember one time when I got my first full time job, and I was making, like, 44 grand a year or something like that and I was like, I wonder how much it would cost to buy a used Ferrari and I was like, man, I could buy a used Ferrari for like, 30 grand, right? So then they called my insurance company, I was like, how much does it cost to insure this? It's like, 1000 bucks a month to insure it and then it's like, if you want to fix it, how much does it cost? It's like, $20,000 a time to fix it. You know, like, the reality is, it's like, you start to get into these things of like, no, it's not gonna bring me happiness, in fact, it's gonna be a burden, it's gonna cost a lot of money. Yeah, I'm gonna look good on the inside, but I'm gonna feel like crap on the inside, or I'm gonna look good on the outside, but feel like crap on the inside and so it was like one of those things where just aha moment of like, it's not stuff, it's not money, that makes me happy, right? It's what I can do with that money and the freedom and the security that it provides. 

Josh: Yeah, and I love that you bring that up, because I've talked to quite a few people on the show, especially who've, you know, they've achieved to the millions to billions, and so on but the number one thing that all of them have said is, is one they've passed a million dollars in, in personal income at the end of the year so I mean, they but maybe we're making $10 million at that point but in personal take home income, their life got 10 times more complicated, because they had you have to figure out what to do with your money or you lose it and so there's a huge stress load that gets piled onto it so you have to be okay with saying, okay, when I make this money, how am I going to mitigate against the all these risks so that my time is still protected because for me as an entrepreneur, I actually really couldn't care less about making millions and millions of dollars for the sake of making money I'm way more concerned about Can I have a great lifestyle and not have to work very long so I can go out and do the things that I actually like to do. And for me, that's actually building more companies. So I'm happy to just, you know, make the more money, right but for some people, they're like, I want to pursue a lot of other things. How do you do that? Right. And that doesn't mean you have to be a millionaire to do that and I think that's what's brought the rise of the lifestyle entrepreneurs are the ones who travel the world and most of those people don't make more than even 100,000 a year, they've just found sneaky ways to make money through the internet so that they can travel all the time and make money through their phone. So with you, Deacon, I mean, we've covered some really good topics here and I hope people are, are taking some of this to heart but I wanted to ask you specifically about your business model that you use, because it's very unique. We were talking about it before when you ask a lot of people about their business model, they'll go off for like, 15 minutes, right? They're like, Oh, I have all these different things that Yeah, your business is literally consume, I put out good content, sell affiliate products on the back end, that's like your entire business model. Is that correct? 

Deacon: Yeah. And what's interesting, though, is it's not even selling. So for instance, like, we do well with like Postmates, doordash and Uber Eats, right. And so we're just saying sign up to be a driver. So you can make some extra income because your incomes down, and we'll get paid 50 bucks, 100 bucks, whatever, for you going out and getting a job and making money, right, like so it's like, that's not a hard sell, right? It's not like I'm saying, hey, buy my $2500 course, which is great and some people do really well with that. But the model is almost like it sells itself, right? Someone's just thinking like, gosh, I really would love to become a delivery driver and I don't know anything about the different companies and they Google best delivery job apps, right and, and then they find our article and they read it and we laid out for him, here's instacart has all these different things. And you pick any of those actually, probably seven out of 10, or whatever, we get paid what for whichever one you sign up for but you pick the one that makes the most sense for you right? So I love this business model, because it's not me trying to say hey, buy my stuff. It's like, no, hey, here are a bunch of different options, educate yourself, and then pick the one that makes the best sense for you and we make money on the back end right and I just, I love it. 

Josh: Yeah, I absolutely love that. I mean, that's the for us, I don't think a lot of people know this about us but we have a heavy percentage of our revenue actually comes from affiliating as well and it's for that same reason, because you're not, it's not really selling, it's just saying, hey, you're already going to be doing these things, come through my website, I'll make it I'll create the vehicle that's going to get you the fastest route to success in whatever they're looking for and I love that because you're not that the guy sitting on the Lamborghini, right? You're literally just saying, hey, come check out my stuff, I'm gonna really legitimately help you, I care about you, as a person, I want to make sure that you get the best delivery company to work for the people who are going to pay you the best and give you the best work life balance and all this I mean, so I love that concept and I hope people who are listening to this have maybe even thought about implementing that into their own company, I found for us, and I'd like to get your opinion on this as well but we get a lot of loyalty from our customers when we provide those solutions instead of constantly just trying to sell our stuff because instead of me saying, Hey, I'm the expert in everything I'm the guy on the Lamborghini, right? It's like, Hey, I don't know a lot about this topic so here's a great person this is the best person in the industry that you should learn from or this is you know, you're trying to get fit the peloton is the absolute best way to do that I'm not plugging peloton in any way, shape, or form but that's John Lee Dumas does that one, right? There's a there's just a lot of ways to do it so for you, have you found that that it increases the customer loyalty as well? 

Deacon: Yeah, absolutely. And that's part of how we built our email list too as far as, hey, we have people come into the email list so for instance, we have $1,000 savings challenge and basically, you know, there was a study that said 67% of people don't have $1,000 in savings. So I'm like, hey, let's try to fix that, we'll create a challenge. Well, in the email sequence, you say you need to make some extra money, here are some options, right become a delivery driver, start your own business, take whatever it is, but we have affiliate offers within that but we're helping them achieve their goal of saving 1000 bucks, right? Or here's an app to help you cancel your subscription and we make money off that right and so it's really the saying like how do we partner with your goal as the reader so that, you know, you achieve your goal, we are able to make money and keep the lights on and it's just a win win win scenario.

Josh: Yeah, and that's, that's such an awesome model and I really like that about you, because your goal isn't to go out and sell you're literally just say, how much value Can I throw out to the market and provide the best solutions for people and I think that's the biggest takeaway people should take away from this interview is to just be thinking about that I mean, are you coming at it as a salesperson? Are you coming at it as how much value can I provide for you and I know that's really kind of like the model that you've, you've employed. So I really appreciate that about what you're doing, Deacon. So, you know, we're coming up to the end of the interview here, man. So I want to ask you, if you could give one final  parting piece of guidance to our audience, what would that be?

Deacon: Be a problem solver I think that that's what people pay for right? They have, they have a problem, and they need a solution and if you can be the person or the business to give them that solution, people will, will pay for it, right? Whether it's they buy your service, or they sign up through the affiliate link, or whatever it might be but if you genuinely care, and you say, hey, what, what is my audience need? Like, what are their problems, right? If I can help them meet that need, and figure out a way to monetize that, that's, that's how business works, right? And I think a lot of times, I've come at it from the back end, where it's like, oh, I need to make money. I'm a business right? And, and then you're like, well, I could do courses, and I could do YouTube videos, and I could do all this stuff right? But I don't have that, that clear path, right? And so like, by the clear path of Hey, people don't have 1000 bucks let me probably provide a solution for that right and then make money through that process. 

Josh: Yeah, I absolutely love that man. Well, I do want to thank you, man for coming on today. It was really awesome interview and I hope people got some really amazing takeaways today. 

Deacon: Yeah, thanks for having me on.