The Lucky Titan

To create the public relations image to super charge your marketing With Jeremy Slate

March 26, 2021 Josh Tapp
The Lucky Titan
To create the public relations image to super charge your marketing With Jeremy Slate
Chapters
The Lucky Titan
To create the public relations image to super charge your marketing With Jeremy Slate
Mar 26, 2021
Josh Tapp

Jeremy Slate is the founder of the Create Your Own Life Podcast, which studies the highest performers in the world; including the former CIA Director, Super Bowl Champions and even a three-time Indianapolis 500 winner. 

He studied literature at Oxford University, and is a former champion powerlifter turned new media entrepreneur. He specializes in using podcasting and new media to create trust and opinion leader status.  In iTunes, he was ranked #1 in the business category and ranked #78 in the Top 100.

Jeremy was named one of the top 26 podcasts for entrepreneurs to listen to in 2017 + 18 by CIO Magazine, top podcast to listen to by INC Magazine in 2019 and Millennial Influencer to follow in 2018 by Buzzfeed.  He’s also a contributing editor of New Theory Magazine and Grit Daily. 

After his success in podcasting, Jeremy and his wife, Brielle, founded Command Your Brand to help visionary founders use the power of podcasts to change the world.

https://commandyourbrand.com/

https://www.jeremyryanslate.com/

https://twitter.com/JeremyRyanSlate

https://www.facebook.com/Jeremyryanslate/

https://www.instagram.com/jeremyryanslate/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-ryan-slate-bb7b284a/





Show Notes Transcript

Jeremy Slate is the founder of the Create Your Own Life Podcast, which studies the highest performers in the world; including the former CIA Director, Super Bowl Champions and even a three-time Indianapolis 500 winner. 

He studied literature at Oxford University, and is a former champion powerlifter turned new media entrepreneur. He specializes in using podcasting and new media to create trust and opinion leader status.  In iTunes, he was ranked #1 in the business category and ranked #78 in the Top 100.

Jeremy was named one of the top 26 podcasts for entrepreneurs to listen to in 2017 + 18 by CIO Magazine, top podcast to listen to by INC Magazine in 2019 and Millennial Influencer to follow in 2018 by Buzzfeed.  He’s also a contributing editor of New Theory Magazine and Grit Daily. 

After his success in podcasting, Jeremy and his wife, Brielle, founded Command Your Brand to help visionary founders use the power of podcasts to change the world.

https://commandyourbrand.com/

https://www.jeremyryanslate.com/

https://twitter.com/JeremyRyanSlate

https://www.facebook.com/Jeremyryanslate/

https://www.instagram.com/jeremyryanslate/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-ryan-slate-bb7b284a/





Josh: What is up everybody, Josh Tapp here again and welcome back to the lucky Titan podcast today we're here with Jeremy Slate who is the master command your brand guy, honestly, this is what's hilarious about this I've seen this guy's content forever and when he's when he hit my calendar, I'm like, I know this guy very rarely happens actually funny enough, but it was cool to have Jeremy come in, you know, he's the host of also it's the Create your own life podcast, top 100 podcast, this guy's been featured everywhere so they know what it takes to show your brand to the world and like their, their brand name is command your brand. So Jeremy say what's up to everybody let's hop in man. 

Jeremy: Hey, brother, what is up? Thank you so much for having me. I'm kind of stoked to chat with you people today, man. 

Josh: Yeah, it's gonna be great. I know, we talked about this before in the interview to Jeremy. But what I loved about our brands is that they're just kind of both sides of the coin, right? You're helping people promote their brand through podcasting, we're all about helping them build an amazing podcast, that then obviously becomes a PR opportunity for them so let's talk through a little bit about your frameworks around helping somebody build a really powerful brand.

Jeremy: So I think the the one thing first off is like getting really clear on like, what you stand for, you know, because there's some people that like, and I think this is it's like really bad right now, like people read 10 business books and they try to be like that person, every one of those books or, like, as a podcaster, or they start a podcast where they tell the person, they ask the person what your story and they talk, and then they give them 10 rapid fire questions, and they call it a podcast so like, you know, I mean, like, you have to get really clear on what you and I can't say much because I started that way but you know, I got better over time. I guess we all get to rehab eventually. But like, the thing you have to realize is like you have to stand for something like there has to be a reason people are going to come to you and people are going to understand where you're coming from. So I think that's first and foremost is like understanding like, what is your unique selling opportunity? What is your unique positioning opportunity and then the other thing too, that people don't consider and I think this is something we think of because like a being in the PR space is we like the people that are gonna listen to you who are their opinion leaders, who do they listen to, because each one of those people are gonna want to be communicated to differently, like, you know, Dave Ramsey's on one side, Suze Orman Orman's on the other, and they do not agree and the people that listen to that person are going to communicate very, very differently. You know what I mean? Just like somebody likes Rachel Maddow isn't gonna like the person that likes rush limbaugh. So like, people are gonna come from people from a very different angle. So we actually tell people, like, you know, what are the people that your people listen to? And then we can kind of get to know more about them. Another thing is to like, you know, if your brand was a rock song, what would it be? You know, I mean, like, these are things you have to think about, because you really want to get that vibe down and get something that people can connect with and understand. So it's kind of really, really where you got to start, man, a lot of people don't do that work. 

Josh: Yeah, I think it's because people are like, I don't know what to put down right  and it's, it seems like this big daunting task. I've recently been interviewing a lot of people with SEO, and I interviewed a lady just right before this one, actually, because I was doing back tech interviews. She totally like changed my paradigm with with SEO, because she simplified it and she obviously knew who she was promoting to, like you said, the new the brushes, like I'm not here to be this billion dollar SEO company, we're here today here's these three simple things you need to do that's where you pay us for the love that. So you're saying with the brand, it all has to do with that that groundwork of saying, who are they following? It's really saying where is the market right?

Jeremy: Yeah. 100% 100% and within that, like, I like that you mentioned too, with SEO, how she's saying, like, this is exactly who we serve, is what we do, because so many times is a lot of business owners that like well, who's your mom, who's your market everybody, well, good luck, man like you got to figure out exactly who you're working with and the thing people don't get is in order to go big, you have to you have to actually have to start very niche, which is kind of against a lot of people's mindset but in order to kind of get noticed you have to get a small group to notice you you can grow out from there. So I think it's really vital to take a look at it that way because then like you understand how they think you understand the questions they ask you understand the things they need to hear you understand there I was talking to a copywriter about this today Jennifer hoody, she runs a company called conscious copy and she was talking about like you actually want to get into the conversation that's happening within your prospects head you don't I mean, because like we all have a certain way we think, and it's not going to mean that everybody in your niche is going to think that way but you're going to have a good idea of the conversations going on in their head and how you can get into that. Once you have that down, you can figure out what publications do they read? What podcasts do they listen to? what people do they read and things like that and that's where you really start a brand is you want to figure out like, what is the position you need to occupy in someone's mind there's a really, really good book on this by Al-Ri is called positioning the battle for your mind. It's a blue believe you're at with jack trout back in the 70s. But it's called positioning the battle for your mind and it talks about like when you're getting positioning, it's what you're seeing, like against like, Hey, we are Pepsi, we are not Coca Cola, right? Or what you're seeing similar to we're like the Uber of blank, which I've heard way too many times but like you're grabbing something that's familiar to someone and you're connecting yourself to that and that's actually how you get positioning and hey, get seen and heard and known. 

Josh: Yeah. And I love the way you're approaching it because the problem that a lot of people have with this is they're like, Okay, I need to choose a niche. So they're like real estate agents like that, that is not a niche, man that's very broad. 

Jeremy: That's very broad. And they, are they luxury real estate agents are the ones that deal in foreclosure, the ones that deal in flips, like, dude, you could go so far in that 

Josh: yeah. And what's crazy to me, that's, like you said, it's just like when I Oh, anybody can use it, right? Well, yeah, no, duh. Anybody can use a spatula to but that doesn't mean everybody needs a spatula tight? 

Jeremy: Exactly. 

Josh: It's really interesting to me, though. I'd like to hear your methodology on this because when they're trying to find that niche, I think it's more about the state that the person's in, than, like, the job that they have. Does that make sense? Like, a lot of them? 

Jeremy: I say, yes. And no, though, right? Because, because the thing is, is doctors that are running a practice, and it's a big practice, where they, you know, they're trying to go national, they're still gonna be worrying about bills, they're still gonna be worrying about HIPAA, they're still gonna be worrying about staff there so I think there are certain things that come with that business, right? And then, you know, the state to me a secondary, right, because, you know, I've met some, some integrative medicine doctors, and you have some that are very, like, you know, mindful and fluffy and stuff like that and you have some on the other side of that are rough, they both get amazing, amazing results for people, but actually, like, how they are is different than what they do, if that makes sense. 

Josh: Yeah, I love that. I mean, I was just kind of curious what your take was on that, because there's like, I think some people, I think there's a lot of different ways to take it and it's like that ideal customer, right The Dream customers 5000 ways to say it but there's like, really figuring out Can I remember listening to that, over and over and over again, I thought I had a narrow niche and so I really like when somebody tries to ask you what it is, you're like, anybody with this thing you know? So I yeah, I love that. 

Jeremy: So I put a mirror up to their face and I see if there ends up being some steam on it, they're my customer.

Josh: So when it comes to building the brand, right, it's all about finding the people find where they're hanging out and so you guys do as a company in particular, right? You're going out and saying, where are these people already listening? What are they listening to? Like? What you know, where are they? So what's, what's kind of your process for finding those places? 

Jeremy: Well, ‘cause so that depends too, because like, the thing I like to tell people is like, there's a, there's a very narrow niche, like, let's say you are helping practice owners with their financial planning, right? Well, there's an unlimited number of podcasts for that, right, and you're not going to get everybody on that. So we tell people, there's different like lenses somebody is going to see through, right? It may be like in building your own business, like you may go on a general entrepreneurship show or somebody wants to see about building your own business, it may be on more of a lifestyle show or somebody people will find out more about how your family does things around your business so like you're going to have, when you build a targeting, you're going to have a very narrow niche that you start with but you're also going to give people different ways to see you and understand who you are because, you know, with any PR, it's a know like and trust factor, right? Like somebody may hear that you know it, but they can't connect with you as a person, you know, that means you're giving somebody different ways to connect this and that's at the same time, like, especially when you're launching a product, we like to do like blanketing the space, right? You go on a whole bunch of shows at once in a short period of time, like let's say, you're going to go on like 24 shows and like 90 days, and because you start appearing in all different places, and you're giving somebody the ability to hear all those different phases at once. So it really, if they don't catch them there, you catch them there and that's really how PR is, you know, it's like you're giving people a different level of understanding of you a different level of trust based on how they're hearing you and how they're experiencing you. 

Josh: I love that. And I think you know, as a podcaster, myself, you know, and we both work with podcasters. It's really unique to see, I guess, the frame of mind that people are coming in.   right, like you said, because the lens through which they're, they're approaching it is just very different and so you kind of just touched on this, but I like to kind of delve into this with you talk about doing like a blankets tour, like you said, we call it like the grand tour, right? You go 

Jeremy: Well, that depends the purpose there too, because like the quote unquote grand tour is just if you're trying to launch a product or a book or whatever it may be, it's more general awareness, your goal is different and that's going to be like much more spread out over time. But go ahead.

Josh: Yeah, no, that's that's a great point and for one of the things that most of the people that we work with when they're trying to get onto shows it is more particularly for a launch and that's what we found to be kind of the better use of podcasts would you agree with that? Or do you feel like it is okay to go and use it? 

Jeremy: So it depends, right? Because like we've had we've done really well with book launches. Like we had a client that we helped them soul sell, you know, somewhere between 4000 and 5000 books, so he did really, really well with that but then on the other side of it, like we have a lot of doctors that we could go on that aren't really launching anything right now but we've been able to get them on a lot of the right podcast in our space, like, you know, some of the larger ones in their space so that at the same time, that creates more trusts, that creates more visibility, it creates a lot of other things. So like, we've seen both work, but it's really important that the person knows their goal, right? Your goal can't be general awareness, launch a book summer course do this, do that, it's got to be a very narrow goal because how you operate and how you set everything up is gonna be little bit different as well.

Josh: Yeah, I love that. You know, it's really unique to to see your take on that because the problem that a lot of people have with going on to podcast is it, it's a quote unquote, branding activity, and there's, a lot of people don't think they can actually sell through them and I'd love to see kind of how you guys are training your guests to go on to these shows, and actually turn it into something that that generates revenue because I know for us even like on my own podcast, sometimes I'm like, What a waste of time.

Jeremy: Because here's the thing, right? Like you, you, you understand, first and foremost, this is a brand building thing but like at the same time, you set up all the right things, right. So like we have a methodology, when we're talking about going on a podcast where we call it story message call to action, right? Somebody's personal story that ties into the three to five key teachable things are going to tell them the call to actions they want to do at the end, you get all those things together, and then you actually give somebody something at the end of the podcast that is going to allow them to continue the relationship and it's usually something that's going to allow them to apply your message and you're going to find that you're going to have a small percentage of people that are going to take you up on that free offer and end up in your database. So like, you want to have that stuff set up and that doesn't mean you're going to go on every show, and it's just gonna be a flood of leads, like I want to fire and we had, you know, a couple 1000 people subscribed to our database. Now, that's not really our market so we didn't really get a ton of business out of that but it enhanced the credibility, my podcasts and you know, got us more growth and things like that. So like, you want to have the right stuff set up. But you also want to have the right expectations, right, like, you know, trust and branding, and everything else is important but if you have the direct response marketing stuff set up, it's good as well and then on top of that, I'm a little crazy with the technology side of things so I also have people on that landing page or sending people to, I have them using an app called getemails.com, because then it's an email retargeting software, basically, if they don't opt in, they're gonna add them to your email list and it's totally white hat and Okay, or we're doing retargeting ads that people have been on that page so you can, you know, raise your level of people that are opting in to that page so if you have these things set up, you're going to see that benefit, but at the same time, your greater vision is a branding.

Josh: Yeah, and that's, that's really a cool way to put it, because the money does come in and what's really funny, to me is a lot of people, they're like, I'm either going to sell a $5000 $20,000 thing, or it's, it's, you know, gonna be free. It's just a branding activity, right? And a lot of people are kind of skipping over this, why don't you just get them into your world, like, continue the relationship, and in our opinion is 

Jeremy: and that's where people are short sighted, right? Like they, they get in a podcast, and they wait for the leads to shower all over them and that's just, that's just not how it is, man. It's building relationship. It's getting people in there, it's making sure you're relevant so they're hearing you more places, and eventually, maybe they come and work with you, or they tell somebody else to come work with you. Like, we've gotten great referrals from people that I've never met that have heard me on a podcast, like, Hey, you gotta check this guy out. So like, you got to think about that, too, like yours and it also at the same time, like a lot of it is how the person shows up, right? Like we've had several we've, I'm thinking in my head of two clients that were on the same podcast, and one made $50,000 in the podcast, the other one said, It sucked. So like part of it is also how you show up, and we can do the best to prepare you for that and coach you through it but you have to show up in abundance and willing to serve to. 

Josh: Yeah, and I love that. I mean, there's it's so funny to watch. I guess kinda like people's approach to the branding, right? Because they're getting, like people overcomplicate it, you know, branding is really very simple and I want to talk a little bit with you about kind of the campaign strategy for you guys, and how you're providing because you're not just saying go on podcast, you're helping them get into publications and do all these other things and with the context of this being a launch, right, they're launching a product or service or something, a book but for most people, it's a book, right? When you're doing these promotional launches, like what does a campaign typically look like?

Jeremy: So it's going to be more shows in a shorter period of time. It also depends on like how invested you are right? Like, like, honestly, like, our best clients have paid for more shows rather than less like we had a client that in, I think it was 90 days to my team hated me for this too, because a lot of work, but in 90 days, we put them on 52 shows or something like that and that was the one that sold 5000 books. We had another person that, you know, did a launch and I really was trying to talk him into doing more shows. So they didn't see what they want to do because they Oh, I'll do 12 shows in six months. It's like well, it's really not enough because you need to match up the momentum with what you're doing and you're going to see that you're going to build momentum, right because it's kind of goes back to what I was talking about with blanketing the space. You're going to start being seen and heard and a lot of the same places. And you know it’s number of times over equals somebody taking action on something, I think it's like they say the average person has to see a message like eight times where they take action on it. That doesn't mean they need to hear you on eight different podcasts but the point is you want to increase your frequency of people hearing you and when you have these retargeting ads and stuff like that set up, you're also increasing your frequency of people hearing you and seeing it. So to me, it's, the more shows you can do in a shorter period of time but you also need to understand there's ramp up time, man, like, you know, when people get started with us, they don't appear on their first podcast for like 30 45 days or something like that, because there's a lot of upfront work. So like, if you're like, Alright, I'm going to launch a book next month, and you're trying to start now, like you are way too late in your campaign so you need to be thinking with, you know, we're gonna be running a campaign 90 days from now, and I want to have everything in alignment, because at the same time, like, let's say you're thinking of a campaign now, like different hosts recorded different times different hosts release at different times so like, you need to be thinking as far ahead as you can, so you can line stuff up in a similar data area, too.

Josh: Yeah, and that, what a great point I mean, honestly, I thought people understand what he's talking about saying, you're the blanket, right? Because what people don't understand is that if they hear you on John Lee Dumas his podcast, you have instant credibility, right? They hear you on a podcast that they're like, Oh, I like this show. You know, it's, it's a, it's a top 50 hundreds like mine, right? Like, it's like a top 50 podcast, but it's, it's not JLD show, right? And they're, they're like, Okay, great. You know, like, they heard me once, but if they hear me there, and on Jeremy's podcast, and on four or five other podcasts, and they see me on another thing, they've seen me enough times, they're like, Okay, this person, obviously, is good at what they're doing especially 

Jeremy: and there are the white elephants that too, like if somebody is like on Joe Rogan, or they're on Tim Ferriss, or something like that, you're gonna be instantly famous, or whatever it is, but you know what I mean, it's there's very, very, very few of those. 

Josh: Yeah. 

Jeremy: And I don't have white elephants this thing, I think it's white whales. Isn't that like, Captain Ahab gonna be mad at me here?

Josh: It's like I was hunting elephants. Yeah. So I mean, it's, it's good stuff. So I mean, and I love that you're covering that point. Because there's, when people are trying to do campaigns, and this is what's hilarious to me and it's frustrating and being in the brand they'll do like one podcast or two pocket seems to they do 20 podcasts over a year and a half. Like that sucked. I was stupid. I'm not doing it again and I would even flip it on the other side of the coin, or they're like, they do 20 episodes as the podcast, and then they give up 

Jeremy: at fading like, do when you're starting a podcast, you need to be willing to be in it for a year, like, honestly be willing to be in this for a year and don't expect to see most more, you know, much visibility before your first six months like if you're gonna start a show, dude, you got to be in it for the long haul. 

Josh: Yeah. Well, and yeah, I mean, our whole strategy is like, monetize it beforehand so whether you're getting listeners or not, you're doing great, right? It's it's a branding activity, but monetize it so I love that you're covering that point because there's a lot of I think, just a headache around branding that people write well, it's just it's hard to track. It's not. It's it's really hard to say this is how much I made off of this campaign. How do you typically work with that? Because I know you're a very numbers driven company? 

Jeremy: Well, I think first, it's like the confusion people have there, right? Like people look at PR and marketing, and I think they're the same thing and then the thing that always bothers me is when is when people try to say, oh, PR is under marketing? No, no, they're not like PR and marketing, accomplish different things in your business. Like, I like to say PR creates the trust and the pieces that marketing can use, right like and that's what you have to really look at, like you're on a podcast. So now you can market it. Like, you know, we had some of it was on a podcast and we also teach people like what to do with episodes like we had somebody remarket it to their list and enclose a $10,000 package for remarketing to their own list to somebody, they didn't hear from him for two years, but just need to hear that interview. So I think at the same time, it's a confusion of terms. So we really work hard, and clearing up that point of like, what does PR do? What does marketing do? And we teach people what they need to do. But we also make sure we're working with companies that have a marketing department, right? Because if we're not working with people that aren't gonna market these pieces, they're probably not the right client for us, because I knew and I were talking about before we recorded here, like, if you're expecting a PR campaign to save your business, there's probably more wrong that I can't fix and neither of us are gonna be happy in the end. 

Josh: Yeah, cuz it's not meant to be the bucket that bails you out. Right? 

Jeremy: Right. No, it's a growth thing like I can't fix structural problems. I can't fix like if your salespeople can't close, but what I can do is I can create more trust so when, you know like lead, see things you know, you're going to have higher quality leads, I can, you know, give you pieces that you're going to remarket so you can grow your fan base more, but like you have to understand that you have to have a lot of the basics in place to be able to take full advantage of a good PR campaign. 

Josh: Yeah, and that's I hope people are listening to that because that is absolute gold and no, you even you just said in passing but it's like the PR creates the pieces that you use in your marketing, and are so just not focused on that because there's searching for the wrong thing with the mice I will love it

Jeremy:  because what I like to say is like, like people are playing this a lot of business owners are playing the game of Hungry Hungry Hippos, right they're like, you know, dollars in leads dollars and lease dollars and leads a couple sales dollars and leads a couple sales and what they're realizing if they don't have a good PR campaign, you're going to be playing Hungry Hungry Hippos forever, right? Because it's the same reason that a doctor in a small town can charge more can be open less time and make more money than all the other ones because he's on the right TV shows. He's on the right podcast. He's in the right places. He's a celebrity. And I think that's the difference. 

Josh: Yeah, what a good point. So I want to ask you this question to directly relate it to you and how you're growing your company as well, because obviously, you're using it in your own business. Otherwise, you know, it's kind of sad when you can't promote. You can't use your own stuff when you're in a b2b services space. Right? So, um, if you had to, like start completely from scratch again, what type of business would you build? And then how would you build it like in 90 days? Because I know, we've been talking 90 days as a launch? How would you do it in 90 days to build a livable income for your family?

Jeremy: Okay, that's really tough, because this business took a lot more than 90 days to build. So I don't know that I would start this because it took me six months, not even making any money. So honestly, you're probably going to like this, but I would do what you said if figuring out how to monetize it before I started, because like my podcast had 10,000 listens in the first 30 days. So I would figure out how to line it up because I know how to get in front of people. I would figure out, you know, what affiliate partners are gonna work with what products and services align with what I do, and I would get that ready to go and launch a podcast. That's honestly what I do, because that's what I did the first time and it worked very well.

Josh: I like to ask that question, because I think it does pull out like, with with a 90 day restriction, you're like, Yeah, I do things totally different. 

Jeremy: Oh, I will. As I said, like, you know, this, I was eating ramen for six months when I started this business five years ago, you know? 

Josh: Yeah, no, I know how it goes feast or famine with business, right? The first two years you're in it? 

Jeremy:I was talking to my dad about that the other day because my dad's like, he's, you know, GED guy. He's always worked like at this, you know, he's started in the factory. He's worked his way up in the management, but he doesn't really have an education background or run a business. So like, I'm explaining to him like, how much money I made three years ago, what I made last year, what I made this year, he's like, oh, wow, this year was it sounded really good. I'm like, Yeah, for those first two years, dad, like, that's why I need all that money, though the first year that I paid you back.

Josh: Love that and you know were coming up in an interview here already when it comes to to branding and what you're talking about, you're like, I figure how to monetize a podcast so, thank you I love the plug that first off  

Jeremy: but it's the truth, though, man because if you do it the right way, is the easiest way to do it because you just have people on that sell products and services that your audience would buy and you get a pretty handsome commission off of a high rate product, you're sitting pretty pretty quickly. 

Josh: Right? Love that. And what's so funny too, is I think, you know, your model is all about, choose a high ticket service where you can get high exposure, because that creates a lasting brand and that's why I wanted to hear your take on it because a lot of people are like, I had a 90 day restriction, it would just be a business that could provide me cash so I could start what I really wanted to do you're saying lay the foundation for something that Yeah, it's a lasting brand. So I love that right? Well, you know, we've covered a lot of topics, Jeremy. So I want to ask you this. Where can people connect with you first off? 

Jeremy: Yeah, well, we talked a lot about PR and market and branding today and you know, like, as I mentioned, like, there's so much information we covered today that I didn't really know in the beginning and I don't like people doesn't make those same mistakes. So I created an awesome free piece for your audience called the seven p seven reasons you're not appearing on your favorite podcasts and they can actually grab that by going over to commandyourbrand.com/7reasons and the word seven, the number seven will work for that. And you know whether they want to work in the future or not, it's just something I think everybody should now. 

Josh: Love that. So make sure you go check that out, commandyourbrand.com/seven, what was it seven? 

Jeremy: seven reasons

Josh: seven reasons. So make sure you go check that out I mean, those type of freebies to me. I mean, like he said, it's to get you to understand branding, it gets you into his world, though. It's a world that you want to be in. He's got great content, so make sure you go check that out. And then lastly, Jeremy, before we sign off, what is one final parting piece of guidance you give to everybody if you could say there's one thing I wish you would get from this interview what would that be?

Jeremy: Wow, one piece of final guidance. Like there's a book I would tell them to read and it's not something really talked about in this intervie bBut there's a book by Cal Newport called so good, they can't ignore you and I think following your passion is the worst advice you can ever be given because, you know, I'm passionate about a lot of things but people don't give you money for him and he talks about finding something you're good at and getting so damn good at it that you know, people basically can't ignore you and that's you know, when you become passionate is when it becomes effortless. So, check out that book I would recommend that