I’ve been a voice actor since 2007 and have worked with clients from major brands all over the world including Dell, BBVA & Kraft. I’m also a singer and in 2015, I put out my own album of jazz, blues and traditional tunes (jodikranglemusic.com). Over the years, and doing what I do, I’ve learned a lot about sound and how it influences people. My own podcast on this subject is called Audio Branding: The hidden gem of marketing. For more information on that podcast, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com and for more information on me, visit voiceoversandvocals.com .
I’d love to give value to your audience in the form of advice about how to make an impact with sound, how to get into and be successful in voice overs, and how to work as an solopreneur in this very busy, overwhelming world. I was an early adopter of the Internet (I had a songwriting resource on the web called The Muse’s Muse from 1995 – 2016) and worked in SEO and Internet Marketing up until I switched my focus to voice overs in 2007. And I’m also an unapologetic media geek and D&D player (D&D is great for improv and learning team dynamics).
Josh: What is up everybody, Josh Tapphere again and welcome back to the lucky Titan and today we're here with Jodi Krangle, did I pronounce your last name, right, Jodi?
Jodi: you did.
Josh: Oh, thank goodness, I should have asked you that before the interview, I butcher these all the time. It's so funny but anyways, so we're here with Jodi, I'm excited to have her here with us today because when she reached out to me that the part that was so intriguing to me and that made me want to bring her on the show is that she's all about audio branding and all of you know, I plug this all the time, like you need to have a podcast but a lot of the nuances are what get us hung up, right and Jody is here really today to kind of debunk a lot of those theories help you figure out how to really brand yourself on your audience that you stand out and I'm hoping she'll also give me some pointers on my show over here so that's all the selfish side of things so hey, what's up everybody and let's hop in.
Jodi: What's up, everybody.
Josh: So excited to have you here, Jody. So I kinda want to kick this one off and is actually really not the question I asked people typically but what why did you choose to come and talk about this on podcasts?
Jodi: Mostly, because I'm a voice actor. That's what I do all day, every day and I've been doing that for around 14 years and I was noticing, and I'm sure a lot of my fellow voice actors, and anyone who works in the audio industry is experiencing this as well, less so now, because I think people are starting to clue into the fact that it's important but a lot of the times in any production that we get called into were like an afterthought where the last person that they put the little bow on the president, you know, with so I always kind of wondered why that wasn't being considered earlier on in the process, because it just didn't make sense to me that you tack on such an important thing right at the end and it can inform everything that you're creating so if you don't think about it to begin with, you're actually doing yourself a disservice and your company and your brand so I thought it was pretty important to talk about,
Josh: right I love that I love that you're actually going out and sharing this with people because I found this with the podcasting industry personally, that it's one of the most unselfish industries. And that's what I love about the audio industry is it's like, let's, how can we give back, obviously, it comes back to us, we know it, you know, like getting our name out there getting on big shows. It's, it's valuable but I love the fact that you're like, hey, let's, let's get out here and give. So I want to kind of ask you, you know, along the lines of voice acting and using that in a podcast, what are some of your big tips for somebody who is in podcasting to take their podcast from just kind of another show it to be its own brand?
Jodi: Well, I think that you can use an intro and an outro, strategically, so getting that professionally produced, you could do that yourself, too. I'm not saying that someone else needs to do the voice for your intro or outro, you could do it yourself ut it should sound somewhat professional so you know, being able to read a script would be handy, choosing music that isn't only stuff that you like, so thinking of the audience that you're trying to reach and using music that you think will appeal to them that you also like that, that's a big, big thing. You're thinking about your audience as well as yourself and also being passionate about the the topic that you're talking about means you're not going to pod fade, right? So if you're actually passionate, and talking about something that means something to you personally, then you're going to keep on with it, it's going to be a mission, let's say and eventually, even if your your intended audience isn't the one that reaches you will reach an audience that will resonate with that message. So yeah, I just think those things are important but also a lot of podcasters have key phrases that they use and that's audio branding, too. It's not all about the intro and outro the music you use, etc. It's also what you do the intro your own, like your own phrase that you say every time you start a podcast or every time you end a podcast, those are things that people will start to remember you for so memory is key here.
Josh: Right and you know, when you when you say that I'm trying to think through who are the people that I know do that because I actually don't have a great catchphrase that we've been thinking about this for years and we have a pretty stellar brands are like how do you like a great catchphrase? It doesn't make me feel stupid, saying you know,
Jodi: you know if it comes naturally, I think that that's a great thing to have. I don't think everyone needs one, I just think if if you happen to naturally fall into saying something at the end of every podcast, you know, like there's one podcast that I listened to call the total life Freedom podcast, which comes out every day and Vincent Puglisi is the guy who does it and I listened to With my morning coffee every morning, and the last thing he says is, and I'll be back with you tomorrow, or I'll be, I'll be back with you, you know, next day or whatever but he says that same phrase every time and, and I just know, okay, that's the end of the podcast, and it just ends there. He doesn't even have an intro or an outro. So, but it's a, it's a daily podcast, it's five minutes or so long. So it's not a huge, I mean, you don't want an intro and an outro, necessarily, that's very long with a podcast, that's five minutes, it's gonna take half the podcast, so really depends on what your podcast is, who you're talking to, and how patient you think they are?
Josh: Well, and I want to take some of those things. You just talked about Jodi, and kind of unpack them because they're so valuable, I mean, we look at a lot of the podcasters that we work with nearly all of them and everybody listening to this show, they're listening, because they're an entrepreneurial, podcaster right, they work, they want to interview entrepreneurs, they want to talk about entrepreneurship. The thing that I always tell people is, don't be so concerned about your topic. It's okay to change topic and because the way I've avoided we've interviewed over 1200 people over the past five years, right? I mean, if I asked the same five questions that many times, yes, I'd shoot myself, that'd be horrible but really focusing on saying, Okay, what are the genuine interests that I have? Right? And so, Jodi the same time I was set, your bio was the same time I was sent probably 18 other entrepreneurs, but you're stood out because I'm like, I'm genuinely curious about this. I want to, and I know this is gonna sound better, but I'm almost like, I don't even care if my audiences I'm I'm interested in it and what's funny is because I am my audiences, does that make sense?
Jodi: yeah, they can definitely pick up on your passion, yeah.
Josh: Right. It's just so funny to me, though, that that people get locked into that so I kind of want to ask you that because you mentioned pod fade, right, just explain what that is, first off, because most people who are listening probably know, but some people might be like a pack is
Jodi: that, sure, yeah. Pod fading is when you just sort of stopped putting out episodes. You don't tell anyone. You just kind of like disappear, look who’s interest in your podcast, and you're done, yeah and that happens a lot.
Josh: Which by the way is like 95% of shows.
Jodi: Yes. And afterlike the seventh, like people do seven in seven podcasts and then they're like, done. Okay, I tried it. This isn't working for me which I don't know how you can tell that after seven episodes, but yeah, okay.
Josh: 700 and then
Jodi: yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I just reached my 100 on my own podcast.
Josh: Congrats, that's a big, that's a big mark. You can now invite Joe Rogan on your show. Just so you know, he'll
Jodi: Oh, really? Yeah, I'll be..
Josh: the only thing he cares about is that you have 100 100 episodes. Yeah, Joe, let's talk about your voice and can you hire me?
Josh: Yeah. So it's, it's quite an interesting that's why I love audio, though is that it does allow you to kind of have that liberty and so you know, with you, I know, this really isn't, like you said your your full focus or area of expertise, per se, but but picking topics right? How do you recommend people pick a topic that actually represents their brand well,
Jodi: I think you need to discover the inner story of what that particular program is going to focus on. So you know, who you're trying to reach, generally, people usually do know who their audiences or have thought about it and you know, what topics you want to make sure you cover. But within that subject, each person that you interview has a different story to tell so one of the first questions I always ask someone, when they come on my show is, what's an early memory of sound that moved you because a lot of the people that I interview, for instance, are people who are very immersed in the sound industry and I want to know what got them interested in the first place? How did they get there, right? Like, that's the story for me so I'm really interested in finding out the progress of how they got to where they are, and then what they think is coming in the future so ultimately, every question that I asked kind of leads in that direction, but there's lots of places to go in there and with active listening, you can sort of get in there and ask questions, after they say something that you know, that intrigues you and that gets you thinking, Okay, well, I may know what that is, but my audience may not can you explain this a little more kind of deal like we were just talking about with pod fade
Josh: Right? Yeah and yeah, and I love that I think that's such a unique way to put it to you know, what I love the question you ask people is like, what was that first experience? It's especially interview style podcasting, I have people tell me Oh, you're so good at it and I'm like, I really don't feel like I'm great at interviewing to be honest with you, I just I do have a genuine curiosity about people and asking questions, even if it feels stupid, yeah, like asking you about pod fade on like, I bet you 95% of people on this show know what that means but it's like let's let's talk it through. Let's see what you know and for me, it's a genuine curiosity but I know for myself, right if I asked that same question 45 times, I'm so burned out of hearing the exact same answer that I changed one of them, I mean, you even mentioned your ideal listener, right? Yeah, always talk about who your ideal customer is and every time I ask an entrepreneur, where should they start like, Well, you didn't know your ideal customer and after hearing about 5000 times for myself, I'm like, Okay, I can't keep asked this question. I'm falling asleep to the answer. Yeah. Even though it's so vitally important, but, but I find myself finding that fade and for you, though, it just seems like that's kind of your area of expertise is saying, hey, let's let's dive into that these real genuine questions.
Jodi: Well, the questions that I asked, I make sure that they could have a different answer. I think that's kind of key to what you're talking about. If I asked one question, and it got the same answer every time I get really bored, too but everyone seems to have a different early aspect of sound that happened in their life that really got them on the path they're going so for me, that's the story that's the intro that's how they got into this and the answer to that question is different every single time I ask it, which I love,
Josh: right? Because everybody has a different story and I love that because that's, I had a coach, I got a coach early on helped me with being a better interviewer because I was not good and I still don't think I'm amazing at it but he he was like
Jodi: it’s a learning process.
Josh: it is such a learning process. Yes. Especially if you're talking to somebody is boring that's like
Jodi: I have pre-interviews, this is something that I will I will let everyone in who's listening to this if you have the opportunity 15 20 30 minutes before you actually interview someone actually just have like a pre interview and talk to them and make sure that they're going to be a good person for your your podcast, because you can tell right then if they're going to be a dud or not.
Josh: Right, and and be willing to say you're not, yes, I think people I've had people chew me out when I say sorry, I mean, thanks for coming on, but we're not gonna we're not gonna post this. We're not gonna Yeah, there was just poor content
Jodi: Yeah. I'd rather tell them before like, right, we have that pre chat and I don't think this is the greatest fit, but I really think you're great and go do what you're gonna do and I wish you every success,
Josh: good personality.
Jodi: I'm not gonna say it but yeah, but no, it you know, a lot of it just has to do with someone who knows, they may know their topic really well, but they can't talk about it and that can be that can be key and that doesn't make them a bad person. It just right doesn't make them a great interview.
Josh: Right. And it's so funny, because there's little nuances that people don't think of that. It does require a lot of practice to get to the point where you know, you know when to pause, you know, what questions to ask but what I love about your specific question that you asked, you said, it's, it's to bring out their story, because it's always different that's what my coach told me. He's like, ask them about the epiphany moment, if you don't have a good question, that's, that's my go to, is I'm like, Well, how did you get to that thought process like, you know, it can be as boring for you, I could make as boring as, you know, what was the epiphany moment you want to become a voice actor? Right? It's an easy question, and you'll have a great answer to it but I love your question, I want to I want to pitch this one back at you Jod, because what what was that moment for you that you felt the what did you say was like, basically like the audio sunk into your heart or something how did you say
Jodi: Yeah, it's like, it's like the the moment that you experienced sound that really made a deep impression on you and I will say that I was raised in a very musical household. So my mother sings, and my dad plays guitar and piano and when I was a kid, pardon me, when I was a kid, my sister and I, and my parents would have sing along time not storytime. So that was our that was how I was raised, I was raised to understand that music was going to be a big part of my life from day one. So for me, that's always been using my voice has always been part of everything I wanted to do.
Josh: See, and that's such a beautiful story and to me it the follow up question for me on that one is just that, you know, how have you been inspiring that in the next generation, do you have kids have asked you this?
Jodi: I do not have, no
Josh: but how do you how do you inspire that and that next generation, that's my question for you?
Jodi: Well, I'm trying to do that with the podcast and the way that I do that with the podcast is that I don't just talk about the business aspect of this. I also talk about the human aspect of this. So I do talk about audio branding as it pertains to advertising and how sound influences us in what we buy but I also talk about how it influences us in our daily lives so I talk about how we can lessen our anxiety through listening to sound so binaural beats and ASMR and shamanic sound healing I actually had an a woman from Australia come on my show who was a shamanic sound healer, who talked about how she helps people transition from life to death through drumming, like it's like It was it was pretty amazing and in my own essays, I talk about how things that we didn't think had sound actually have sound like planets and black holes and, you know, things in the cosmos and good vibrations, where did that come from and how are the products that we are using using sound even though they don't need to have that sound anymore? Like vacuum cleaners don't need to be as loud as they are but if they aren't that loud, we don't think they're working right, like there's weird,
Josh: it’s bizarre.
Jodi: It is bizarre, exactly but also you can influence what you taste by what you hear so all of our senses work together. It's just a fascinating subject to me all together and so I'm trying to help other people be as fascinated with it as I am.
Josh: Well, the thing is, it's intriguing, right? And a lot of people look at intriguing topics like, Wow, that's amazing. And then they never deep dive further into it. Right? So I think part of it is like, how is it relating to someone like us, because as an entrepreneur, right, I have found, especially interviewing so many different people is that there's kind of two schools of people and they kind of fall into like political parties, but I'm not going to go political on it. Were like, some believe in vibrations, for example and some believe that that's a bunch of what he called like malarkey and then it's kind of back and forth but how do you spark the interest in something like you're doing into an audience of entrepreneurs, I'm just kind of curious how you're doing that?
Jodi: Well, a lot of this does have to do with advertising and making yourself more memorable. So if you understand how the human mind works, then you can understand how to best you know, move your advertising, I mean, really, it's all human nature so that whole thing about my mentioning, consistent repetition. That is how we remember, and that is how things make an impression in our brains and that's why audio branding works so well so for me, when people don't take that into account when they're doing a podcast, or they're doing their branding for their company or anything like that, when they don't take that into account. They're missing out on a whole other world that could help them reach an audience that they want to reach. It's just It's mind boggling to me that it isn't paid more attention to
Josh: what and as you're talking, the word that keeps popping into my head is like we're preached over and over and over again, in marketing, we need to resonate with our audience, yeah, resonate as a sound so I'm thinking about what you're talking about, like,
Jodi: it’s so true,
Josh: so intriguing and so let me ask you this, then with it and I have to kind of pre frame this, right, because like you mentioned at the beginning of the interview, that your your full time in voice acting, there are very few people on this planet that can do that. They can get to the point where they're living a really good having a good income and living a great lifestyle off of voice acting, which is sad, because I think it's awesome.
Jodi: I love it.
Josh: what's making your differentiating factor, what's allowing you to be able to do that full time ago, would you say is that pivotal thing that's allowing you to attract enough business to be at that solopreneur and have such a great lifestyle?
Jodi: You know, I would say that this is something that every entrepreneur has to take into account and that is knowing what to charge for your services. I think a lot of us come from positions of scarcity and unfortunately, if that's the way that you price yourself, then you're not going to be able to make a full time living from whatever it is you're doing. So you need to know your worth and you need to charge what you're worth and then I'm going to preface that also by knowing that you should also pay what people are worth so if you are an entrepreneur, and you want people to pay your prices, but you're going to Fiverr for your design, right there's, there's a there’s a disconnect there so if someone is in a creative endeavor, and they're asking for a certain amount of money, they're asking for that, because that's how they make a living and their creativity is worth paying for and it's it's worthy of being considered an actual thing that you should pay decent money for, but But you are too, right, like as entrepreneurs, we believe that we are worth paying for it too so if you have that deep belief that you are worth paying for, pay other people with their worth.
Josh: Right? Jeez, that's brilliant. That's such a unique answer. I was not expecting that. I love that because it's it's so true. I mean, we we watch because I know for myself starting in marketing when I was in college, trying to start a business that way I was like, how do I make this as cheap as possible? I need to be the low cost leader and I needed to but I also need to afford to pay other people so I was pulling for fiber in different places trying to get you know VA’s from the Philippines or what have you to do this work but what changed for me even with our existing company was saying, how do I become the most expensive and make it worth it?
Josh: I know for us, you know, when we first quoted people, you know, one of our packages is was a six figure package, which for me at the time was like, I couldn't even fathom selling that to somebody, I was still only at a 20% margin at that, at that package with what we were offering the person and when they were just like, that's it sweet, let's do it, I remember thinking to myself, That's it, that's that's the whole the crux of it, if you're charging too little, yeah, hire somebody more expensive and crank your rates up, and you'll look crazy, crazy valuable?
Jodi: Well, there is something to be said for the human psyche. psyche, actually. So if you actually look into the psychological experiments on this, the more that you spend on something, the more likely you are to think it's worth it because you are going for that premium thing, right? Whatever that premium thing is, they did they did a test, I'm not sure who they are exactly, I can't, I can't like quote this exactly but I think if you look for it, you'll find the study, they did it about coffee, and they had two kiosks or like, you know, places you could go in a conference center or something like that each one had the same coffee, and one was for $3 and one was for $12 and the people who bought the $12 cup of coffee consistently said that it was better than the $3 cup of coffee, it's the same coffee.
Josh: Right, you're gonna feel like an idiot when I tell you it's the same coffee.
Jodi: Exactly, exactly. So like I'm not I'm not trying to make people feel like an idiot but but, but you can sort of extrapolate from this that if you are not charging, what you're worth, people are going to treat you as if you are a cheap commodity and if you're a cheap commodity, you're a dime a dozen it's a race to the bottom, right?
Josh: So do you mind if I kind of rephrase one of the words you said there too, instead of your what your worth, I feel like it's what, what is the value that you're providing worth.
Josh: and how do you make it so valuable because I know for myself, I always felt like, I'm not worth much, I don't have an education, I'm not good at this and when I look at my own service, sometimes I'm still like, oh, this anything that Josh touches on, like, I shouldn't be touching. Here we are in a very creative industry and I am very, not artistically inclined with like graphic design. So whenever I touch that stuff, I'm like, Oh, that's not worth the money, I have to pay somebody better than me to do it just for that same reason, I know, it's kind of a tangent,
Jodi: but that person is worth paying what they're worth right, because they're adding value to what you're presenting to your clients so so my thought is, I want to charge what I'm worth, but I also want to pay other people what they're worth. So in a way, I'm giving back by charging what I'm charging so that I can pay other people what what they're worth,
Josh: right. Yeah, that's so brilliant and men are coming up to enter that conversation, to talk to you for days is a fun conversation so I do want to just kind of wrap up this interview though, because we've given some really good actionable steps, I usually ask people to give that the end of the interview, but you've given it.
Jodi: I'm glad
Josh: go go go relisten this interview, pull out a pen and paper and make sure that you're saying, Okay, what are those actionable steps I can take today and and go apply them take those steps. So, Jod, just kind of wrap up this interview, could you give us one entrepreneurial parting piece of guidance?
Jodi: I think that you can outsource long before you think you can and the reason that I say that, and I've said this a few times on other places that it still holds really well, if you free yourself up to do the stuff that you are really brilliant at and you pay other people to do the stuff that you don't feel you're as good at your whole organization benefits and your psyche, your own mental well being benefits because you get to do more of what you love to do, and less of what you hate to do. So and actually that'll help you make money so I do feel that people try to wait to outsource until they have this bunch of money saved up that they know they can allocate to that fund, right? No, no, just do it now. You will you will thank me just just do it.
Josh: That's such a broad I was going to end the interview right there but I have to throw my two cents and I completely agree. It's funny to meet people. Everybody thinks oh when I can afford the next person but I every time I hire someone it's either out of our cash account, you know if we do have cash, but it at the beginning, it was always debt. It was always that was taking out debt so I could afford that next person because as you said, it just it always yields. So I really truly appreciate you coming on Jodi that was such a fun, fun conversation.
Jodi: my pleasure.
Josh: and I'm gonna ask you one final question too, because that was the last question but I have one more for you.
Josh: tell us what's next. What's next for Jodi? What's the big the big goal? The big aha you're shooting for?
Jodi: Oh my goodness. Um, you know, I just love what I'm doing. It just, I honestly, I just really love what I'm doing, I love voiceover I love doing it as often and as much as I possibly can nd, and I just I love every minute of it so whatever allows me to do more of that I'm on board.
JoshLWell, where can people find you, Jodi? Where can they go and hire you?
Jodi: I'm at voiceoversandvocals.com nd if they're interested in the podcast, if it's okay to mention?
Josh: please do plug away
Jodi: that audiobrandingpodcast.co and I'm actually on clubhouse as well, every Wednesday at 2pm Eastern if people are interested so I have a club called The Power of sound and guess what we talk about?
Josh: gonna be sound and I can I can personally attest go listen to that podcast. It's fantastic. She does such a great job over there. Jodi, thank you so much for coming on today.
Jodi: Thank you so much for having me.